Thread: My huge order of Japanese tools arrived :)

Raptor

A treasure trove.

I can imagine your emotions as the parcel is unopened .

Regards
Paul

Man. That nagadai kanna is as dead as it gets.

No, you don't need a chipbreaker, but I've found it a bit better to use one. A preference thing. Use your hammer (genno) to tap the bent ears (mimi) down a wee bit, test and re tap if needed. You need that chipbreaker to be an absolute hair of the edge of the blade. Careful honing on waterstones is essential. Put away those diamond files and oil stones!

The blade is doomed. There is nothing left. Its been ground back to less than half of what should be there. The ashi (the backs left and right edges) are a mess. Nothing will bring that back! You can still have fun with it though. Check the thickness of the hard steel backing - it looks like there will be little left.

The dai (body) needs treatment too, but you'll need to be really careful with the Tsutsumi (if it exists) and the Haguchi (mouth) so that it isn't too big. If this is rooted then anything you do with a chipbreaker will be for naught.

I might suggest Des Kings awesome book Shoji and Kumiko Design, book one. It covers this off in excruciating detail.

It will be a good learning experience. Kanna can be a very love/hate thing. I love my kit.

Great haul.

I particularly like the rulers with stoppers. Just so practical.

Originally Posted by Evanism

Man. That nagadai kanna is as dead as it gets.

No, you don't need a chipbreaker, but I've found it a bit better to use one. A preference thing. Use your hammer (genno) to tap the bent ears (mimi) down a wee bit, test and re tap if needed. You need that chipbreaker to be an absolute hair of the edge of the blade. Careful honing on waterstones is essential. Put away those diamond files and oil stones!

The blade is doomed. There is nothing left. Its been ground back to less than half of what should be there. The ashi (the backs left and right edges) are a mess. Nothing will bring that back! You can still have fun with it though. Check the thickness of the hard steel backing - it looks like there will be little left.

The dai (body) needs treatment too, but you'll need to be really careful with the Tsutsumi (if it exists) and the Haguchi (mouth) so that it isn't too big. If this is rooted then anything you do with a chipbreaker will be for naught.

I might suggest Des Kings awesome book Shoji and Kumiko Design, book one. It covers this off in excruciating detail.

It will be a good learning experience. Kanna can be a very love/hate thing. I love my kit.

Thanks for the detailed post. I'm learning a lot from what you wrote. I also had a good laugh about your reaction to the state of the kanna. Although I wouldn't of known without you pointing it out. I'll check out that book you recommended.

I do treat it as a learning experience because I don't want to purchase expensive kanna and damage them with incorrect technique when I can experiment on cheap ones that may need work to get working nicely. Unfortunately my quick 3 day course in Japan didn't include how to maintain and repair kanna, so I've been self teaching myself from reading Japanese websites.

I will follow your instructions on preparing the chipbreaker and see if I can get it fit just right.

As for the sharpening tools, I have been experimenting with different stones but don't have all the grits I need, so I'm making do with what I have at the moment. I mainly use the diamond files and oil stones from bunnings for very rough prep on the blade before moving to the 1000 water stone. I am waiting for more water stones to arrive in the mail as I find the water stone works the best for making a sharp edge.

The blade on the ground side really looked terrible but was glad there was enough left to at least poke out the plane mouth. It wasn't particularly difficult to sharpen up but I hope there will still be enough blade left on it to let me keep using it for a reasonable amount of time. I'll check up on how much hard steel backing is left when I get home.

Nothing better than Japanese tools. I have a lot and use them every day.

Don't construe my comments as being critical. You are absolutely right. Learning on a $20 second hand Kanna sure beats making a fatal mistake on an expensive one!

Please also, I'm in no way an expert, simply a student of the fine book I referred and watching youtubes and applying myself diligently. Nothing more than that.

With stones, it's well covered elsewhere, but a 1000, 4000 and 8000 will cover 95% of your needs. King is fine, Naniwa are super dooper, but the price matches too!

Good haul!

Originally Posted by Evanism

Put away those diamond files and oil stones!

+1

On the diamond files: they have some uses around the workshop (eg touching up tungsten carbide edges) but have insufficient surface area for good control when rehabbing or establishing new angles on blades. Diamond plates are a better option if you prefer diamond for coarser 'stones'. If you can't afford that immediately, abrasive paper glued to float glass is a cheap option for occasional use. If used carefully, belt sanders are another option for very heavy duty metal removal; they run slower and abrade cooler than bench grinders and give you a 'flat-ish' grind.

I find #1000 stones too slow for heavy duty metal removal and go down to #240, followed by #700, waterstones for that.

On oil stones: oil and water don't mix! Oil repels water. Keep oil away from your waterstones.


Neil

Nice haul Raptor. I can see many a fun day spent with them. Looks as though there was a special sale on kiri

The gyokuchō you bought is a good blade. I have a few, and they cut very well and very smoothly. With care, there's still a bit of life left in the kanna. If the blade gets too loose in the dai just add a paper shim or two to make it tighter and more secure. I think you'll find using the chip breaker will save you a lot of grief when planing, especially in the early stages. Evanism mentioned it, but the saying is "kami no ke ippon" - the width of a hair. That's how far the chip breaker should be set back from the cutting edge. But also as Evan said, it will be a good plane to practise on. If you can get that to work, tuning and maintaining a newer kanna should be a breeze.

If you have someone in Japan to accept and pay COD for deliveries, a website worth checking out is this one — dogudoraku. I've used them to buy general hand tools for years, and they are very good. It's all in Japanese. Unfortunately there's no credit card and no overseas deliveries, so you'll need someone in Japan.

Just a small point on terms, and sorry if I sound pedantic, but spokeshaves are called Nankin kanna (or Nankin-ganna). The kyou is the kyou (capital) from Tokyo and Kyoto, but when in a compound with nan (south), in this case it's read as Nankin (Chinese city of Nanjing).

All the best, and have fun.

Des

Originally Posted by Evanism

Nothing better than Japanese tools. I have a lot and use them every day.

Don't construe my comments as being critical. You are absolutely right. Learning on a $20 second hand Kanna sure beats making a fatal mistake on an expensive one!

Please also, I'm in no way an expert, simply a student of the fine book I referred and watching youtubes and applying myself diligently. Nothing more than that.

With stones, it's well covered elsewhere, but a 1000, 4000 and 8000 will cover 95% of your needs. King is fine, Naniwa are super dooper, but the price matches too!

Good haul!

Thanks for the info! Still didn't get around to checking out the kanna blade again yet, but will do this weekend.

My 1000 waterstone is a King that I picked up used in Japan for 500 yen ($5~) at some markets in Japan.
I have a cheap no brand 3000/8000 combination stone coming in the mail that should fill the gap in sharpening stone grits.

Is there anything to watch out for when using cheap waterstones?

Tim.

Originally Posted by NeilS

+1

On the diamond files: they have some uses around the workshop (eg touching up tungsten carbide edges) but have insufficient surface area for good control when rehabbing or establishing new angles on blades. Diamond plates are a better option if you prefer diamond for coarser 'stones'. If you can't afford that immediately, abrasive paper glued to float glass is a cheap option for occasional use. If used carefully, belt sanders are another option for very heavy duty metal removal; they run slower and abrade cooler than bench grinders and give you a 'flat-ish' grind.

I find #1000 stones too slow for heavy duty metal removal and go down to #240, followed by #700, waterstones for that.

On oil stones: oil and water don't mix! Oil repels water. Keep oil away from your waterstones.


Neil

Interestingly enough I find the diamond files convenient to use. For control, I hold a finger behind the file and place the bevel side of the blade on the surface so that the angle is flat to the file and move the blade sideways instead of back and forth which seems to work quite well and takes no setup. I also use them to flatten the back too. I don't use them for making new angles though.

The oil stone is rarely used and when used is only as a replacement for a grinder. I used it this time as the blade had huge grind marks which I needed to fix up. I also made sure to wipe the blade well before moving to the water stone later on. Next time i'll make sure I keep it away from the water stone when working with it.

My water stone is a #1000, so I didn't use it for the heavy duty metal removal but as my polishing stone.

Originally Posted by cava

Great haul.

I particularly like the rulers with stoppers. Just so practical.

I agree. I found rulers with stoppers really improved the speed and accuracy of my marking out significantly.
I started with a rule stopper I bought at carbatec once and after seeing how useful they were, I bought these ones because they were less than half of what I paid for on my first one.

Tim.

Originally Posted by raptor

Thanks for the info! Still didn't get around to checking out the kanna blade again yet, but will do this weekend.

My 1000 waterstone is a King that I picked up used in Japan for 500 yen ($5~) at some markets in Japan.
I have a cheap no brand 3000/8000 combination stone coming in the mail that should fill the gap in sharpening stone grits.

Is there anything to watch out for when using cheap waterstones?

Tim.

Hi Tim,

You'll probably want some kind of flattening stone for your water stones. They're soft enough that eventually you will get an uneven surface from using them. I use this: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/833...with-Case.aspx but beware, some have had problems with these not being entirely flat. Mine is fine and works well. I suggest an in-person evaluation of the particular stone you are thinking of purchasing.

Cheers,
Rob

Originally Posted by Des.K.

Nice haul Raptor. I can see many a fun day spent with them. Looks as though there was a special sale on kiri

The gyokuchō you bought is a good blade. I have a few, and they cut very well and very smoothly. With care, there's still a bit of life left in the kanna. If the blade gets too loose in the dai just add a paper shim or two to make it tighter and more secure. I think you'll find using the chip breaker will save you a lot of grief when planing, especially in the early stages. Evanism mentioned it, but the saying is "kami no ke ippon" - the width of a hair. That's how far the chip breaker should be set back from the cutting edge. But also as Evan said, it will be a good plane to practise on. If you can get that to work, tuning and maintaining a newer kanna should be a breeze.

If you have someone in Japan to accept and pay COD for deliveries, a website worth checking out is this one — dogudoraku. I've used them to buy general hand tools for years, and they are very good. It's all in Japanese. Unfortunately there's no credit card and no overseas deliveries, so you'll need someone in Japan.

Just a small point on terms, and sorry if I sound pedantic, but spokeshaves are called Nankin kanna (or Nankin-ganna). The kyou is the kyou (capital) from Tokyo and Kyoto, but when in a compound with nan (south), in this case it's read as Nankin (Chinese city of Nanjing).

All the best, and have fun.

Des

Hi Des,
We were just talking about your book, so I'm surprised to see you also responded.

I did my order on Amazon Japan and was unsure which kiri to buy as they had about 5 different types of different sizes.
As the kiri were only around 500 yen ($5) each, I just ended up buying one of each.

I am finding the Gyokuchou saws really great. I am able to cut very straight and fine with the blade.

Thanks for the tips on setting up the kanna. I'm glad that it still has some life left and knowing that using the chip breaker would be beneficial.

I'll check out Dogudoraku. I do have the means to order from it, but not at the moment as my funds in my Japanese bank account is getting low now after paying for my current loot so I'll have to wait until I can top that up first.

Thanks for the correction for the name of the spokeshave! I really appreciate it as I don't want to be using the wrong terminology without realising it.

I'm looking forward to the weekend to give the new tools a test drive

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Hi Tim,

You'll probably want some kind of flattening stone for your water stones. They're soft enough that eventually you will get an uneven surface from using them. I use this: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/833...with-Case.aspx but beware, some have had problems with these not being entirely flat. Mine is fine and works well. I suggest an in-person evaluation of the particular stone you are thinking of purchasing.

Cheers,
Rob

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the heads up. I forgot about the flattening stones. I know my water stone is already starting to become uneven on the sides.

Tim.

Originally Posted by raptor

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the heads up. I forgot about the flattening stones. I know my water stone is already starting to become uneven on the sides.

Tim.

IMO, keeping stones flat is critical to achieving an even sharp edge.

I cross hatch the stone face with a pencil before flattening to pick up any residual low spots.

My preference is for Atoma #600, they come flat. Some don't.

Abrasive wet & dry 'paper' glued to float glass (use an even coating of spray glue to maintain flatness) will do the job satisfactorily as an interim measure.

Neil