Thread: Kanna Identification

Looks like a nice score to me Price certainly was right, and I agree that its a good quality. Can't help you with the mark as yet - I'll do some research if no one else comes up with the details.

I am glad to hear that your more experienced eye agrees with my assessment. I wish I could find an easy way to find kanji characters. I had a little bit of a search online for a kanji finder but no luck. I am never am able to match the kanji.

I'd hoped there was an easier way too, but basically you have to scan tables of kanji until you find a (possible) match, then find out how its read (pronounced) and if possible, its meaning.

Here are a few links:

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/c...wwwjdic.cgi?1C
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~kanji/
http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/santai.htm

(this list is by no means complete or exhaustive - there are many others, some may be better than those I've come across).

Its not easy, but usually you can get close if not exact. Worse thing is when kanji are stylized and/or written in an old or obsolete manner - then you're just guessing .

Good luck (hopefully, someone who reads Japanese will save you or me the trouble )

A Japanese work mate of mine, who is no kanna expert, thinks it is a name: Sagenta, or Dogenta.
It certainly wasn't clear to him as it's a bit stylized and in old form. He was even more confused when he compared the characters on the box with those on the blade, where the first character are a little different.

Regards,
Gadge

Thanks Gadge - So its a name and its old form and stylized. So we almost zero point zero chance of working out the name. A search for for Sagenta, or Dogenta.just points back to this page. Well personally I find the story behind Japanese toolmakers ads an extra dimension to the tool. I will have to console my self with simple enjoying it.

Hi Thumsucker,

Yes, you can console yourself with using what appears to be a very nice kanna and at a good price. Even in todays terms you got a bargain as the original price was 15,000 yen.
I've been using kanna for about 20 years and learnt most of what I know from trial and error plus Odate's book and recently internet. I learnt more from this guy's sign language in half an hour than in years of searching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT5qLzbidRs

Regards,
Gadge

Thanks for the vid Gadge. A few finer points learned. Will post bakc when the kanna arrives and I get to setting it up.

Two readings according to my expert are: Sagenta or Hidarigenta.

Essentially just someones name.

Garry that is a great vid, thanks for sharing. Anyone interested should have a look at youtube videos posted by 'sumokun', he also has some excellent Japanese plane stuff.

Thumbsucker,
Nice find, I'm a little envious. Would you care to share which ebay site it was on and who the seller was?

Cheers

Derek

I have a search that I run daily on ebay international.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Planes-/1387...panese&_sop=10

The seller was not a tool seller but an antique dealer.

http://www.ebay.com/usr/shin109-jp?_...84.m1439.l2754

I have found that tool sellers mark up and promote their products better, were antique dealers just move the item through, not knowing its true value. So you are more likely to find a bargain with a non tool dealer.

However I am moving away from ebay as I have finally overcome the last hurdle to buying tools from Japan directly and I am not talking about toolfromjapan Or japan-tools either. japan-tools is always closed not taking new orders and Stuart from toolfromjapan range is rather small once you know what you can actual get in Japan. Also Stuart is to busy to deal with "extra curriculum" orders as he puts it.

Originally Posted by Yxoc

Garry that is a great vid, thanks for sharing. Anyone interested should have a look at youtube videos posted by 'sumokun', he also has some excellent Japanese plane stuff.

Thumbsucker,
Nice find, I'm a little envious. Would you care to share which ebay site it was on and who the seller was?

Cheers

Derek

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

...However I am moving away from ebay as I have finally overcome the last hurdle to buying tools from Japan directly and I am not talking about toolfromjapan Or japan-tools either. japan-tools is always closed not taking new orders and Stuart from toolfromjapan range is rather small once you know what you can actual get in Japan. Also Stuart is to busy to deal with "extra curriculum" orders as he puts it.

I've bought a couple of items from shin109-jp on ebay, generally good deals until he gets into weird handle finishes.

So, what's the secret of shopping from Japan? Not fair to make such a post and leave us hanging.

Pam

Yes, do tell,....

Originally Posted by Sheets

Yes, do tell,....

English is the Lingua Franca of our times and business is business or put another way money talks and male bovine feces walks. As my uncle said to me once people do not care what color your skin is as long as your money is green (I am not white skinned ). Combined with the accessibility provided by the internet and email. It is not hard to buy directly from tool stores in Japan. If you are willing to put in the work.

What I did was use Google chrome or chromium web browser, it has a built in auto language translation function if a page loads in a language that is not your default language it auto translates. Now it does a god job for European languages but with East Asian languages it is like reading poetry from a mental handicapped individual. The words are there however you need to look past the words and look at the whole paragraph often enough you can figure out the authors intent.

Here is an example of Google translation:

This steel is steel that is used more towards the chisel blacksmith in white paper No. 2 is a thin chisel to make the National Day's Sanjo, the steel National Day 's use.
The person in question is also saying blank No. 2 provide the best to chisel. Depending on the maker, is also woven Those who use the blue paper No. 2, and you are breaking the person who used the white paper No. 1. Tip of a thin chisel's in sharpened, please lay the angle preference angle because it is standing slightly. Thin chisel and shallow angle of the cutting edge a little..

Me head hurts often times rarely.

Then you need to find the tool stores in Japan that was the hard part, if you search for "woodworking tool store" in Japanese you end up getting a whole bunch of power tool shops. I found that if I searched using the names of well known blacksmiths was the way to find the stores. So you choose a blacksmith Ouchi for example then you find his name in Japanese 大内 I would then add the character for chisel 鑿. Now if you do a normal Google search you end up with crap in English and it leads you the wrong way. What you need to do is do an advance Google search.

http://www.google.com/advanced_search

Making sure to select Language as Japanese and Region as Japan this will only return results for web pages written in Japanese in Japan.

Here is a list of tool stores that I found in Japan. Now all off these stores are small family business selling to traditional carpenters and the hobbyist woodworkers.

http://homepage2.nifty.com/togi/index.htm
http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~ttoishi/sub4.htm
http://www.e-kanamonoya.jp/
http://www2.odn.ne.jp/mandaraya/
http://ovs.ohkubo-corp.com/
http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/
http://www.honmamon.jp/fs/honmamon/c/gr14

I found others however they do not sell overseas. Yes all of the above shops sell overseas some even state so on their websites. They also all speak and write English. They all accept VISA and some do Paypal. The fact that the above is the case leads me to believe that I am not the first Western barbarian to knock on their doors. I am sure others have done so and do so regularly, enough so that they the Japanese sellers see value in us outsiders.

I sent each one an email I made the English as simple statements. Then use Google translate to translate into Japanese like this:

こんにちは

私はオーストラリアに住んでいます。
私はあなたの店から購入したい。あなたは私がオーストラリアにあなたから購入ツールを掲示することはできますか？

私はビザのクレジットカードと銀行振込で支払うことができます。

どうもありがとうございました

名 - Helmut XXXXX
番地 -2014 John Hope Road Fairy-way Court Melbourne Australia
郵便番号 - 2357
携帯電話 -XXXX XXX XXX

Hello

I live in Australia.
I want to buy from your store.
Can you post tools I buy from you to Australia?
I can pay with Visa credit card and bank transfer.

Thank you very much

Short to the point and simple, however trying to be very polite. Everyone replied within 12 hours and all in good English.

Once I knew that they would deal with me I started to ask for quotes. Here is one example:

こんにちは

私はのための価格の引用をお願い申し上げます。

國慶　総角打Item No. NO.NO31 *

敬具

Hello

I would appreciate a price quote for:
國慶　総角打 Item No. NO.NO31 *

Yours truly

The item was a complete set of 10 chisel by Kunikei a chisel makers whose chisels I wish to secure. Now a set of ten with a signed box bought from a western tool dealer by this maker will cost you between $1500 to $2000 Australian dollars. There is used one of his chisel going on eBay at the moment for $195 for a single chisel. Kunikei is said to be as good as Tasai but less well known.

Only one store had the exact set that I wanted, and in stock the others could put me on a waiting list or get me a slightly different set. The asking price 91000 JPY or $950.648 Australia dollars a saving of over $500 to $1000 dollars.

Am I stupid, probably, am a taking a risk yes, but we all take risks every time we get out of bed in the morning. It is however the risk takers who dent the Universe taking a page from Apple.

I cannot guaranty nor am I saying that this is something you should do. It however has worked for me. Just make sure that if you do try this be polite and to the point with the sellers in Japan and do not waste their time we want them to open up to Western tool users.

To quote Sun Tzu the Chinese military author and general "Victory is found in options" and we all benefit by having options. It took me over a month of work to figure all of the above out. It was hard going but I feel worth it.

Thumbsucker,
That's some clever and creative detective work there, well done. Are you using google translate to find the kanji for the names of smiths etc?

Made any purchases yet?

Derek