Needs Pictures: 0
Results 226 to 240 of 287
-
23rd March 2014, 09:03 PM #226Intermediate Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Brisbane
- Posts
- 44
Will do. The kit is almost finished. Knife wise, I'm only missing a Watanabe Gyuto and possibly in the future a Deba.
Almost got the sharpening kit finished as well. As it stands:
1 x King #300
1 x Naniwa #1500 XXL stone
1 x Naniwa #3000 Unsure of which type, but it was cheap and I'm not much of a fan.
and on the way
1 x Suehiro Rika #5000 from Stu. He's flat out at the moment so I'm not sure when that will get here.
1 x Atoma #400 once again from Stu
1 x Hishiboshi Karasu #9000 finishing stone from Japan tool. This one should be posted around the 25/03
That should pretty much do me for now....and a long time into the future. Unless I start to look at J-Nats Might let my wallet recover first
-
23rd March 2014 09:03 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
- Join Date
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Posts
- Many
-
1st July 2014, 05:59 PM #227
True Damascus figuring doesn't look like that, and isn't made like that. That's a simulacrum
The subject of what a true Damascus blade is was covered in the Scientific American (PDF)
-
2nd July 2014, 09:59 AM #228Novice
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
- Location
- Moonee Ponds
- Posts
- 19
Great Post
Funny if any thing can get a man into the kitchen it has to be sharp and made from the finest japanese steel. Perhaps a sink made from the finest Damascus blue steel will have us doing the dishes.
-
3rd July 2014, 01:19 PM #229
Great article on the origins and composition Damascus steel, US-Oz.
However, it is more a case of misnomer than simulacrum.
The misnaming of multi-laminated Japanese blades by westerners as Damascus is where the confusion has come in.
The Japanese called their decorative patterning Mokume-gane (木目金), which roughly translates as 'wood grain metal' and is a tradition that is almost as old as Damascus sword making itself.
The misnaming has become so pervasive in the West that some Japanese retailers now translate Mokume-gane as Damascus when selling to westerners, but the Japanese blade smiths who are working in their own deep tradition do not claim to be 'simulating' Damascus steel.
Should there be a revival of Damascus steel making there will have to be some sorting out of the terminology, although from what I read of the process there won't be too many of us that can afford to buy a blade that has required 50 cycles of reheating and cooling at today's fuel prices.
As explained in the article, the advantages of Damascus steel is in;
"The carbide particles [that] are extremely hard, and it is
thought that the combination of these bands of hard steel
within a softer matrix of springier steel gives Damascusweapons a hard cutting edge combined with a tough flexibility"
As I understand it, the Japanese blade smiths achieve the same outcome by laminating a thin layer of very hard steel, which forms the cutting edge, with a soft layer or layers of iron or stainless to provide a cushioning effect for the hard and brittle steel. This seems to me to be a more economical way of achieving the same outcome.
Neil
-
3rd July 2014, 03:26 PM #230
Er .. not quite. From wikipedia article on Mokune-gane states that such blades were "first made in 17th-century Japan", whereas the true Damascus blade are so called because they were first encountered by Westerners during the Crusades (1000-1300AD), and probably date back much further (wikipedia states back to 300BC in India).
The misnaming has become so pervasive in the West that some Japanese retailers now translate Mokume-gane as Damascus when selling to westerners, but the Japanese blade smiths who are working in their own deep tradition do not claim to be 'simulating' Damascus steel.
As explained in the article, the advantages of Damascus steel is in;
"The carbide particles [that] are extremely hard, and it is
thought that the combination of these bands of hard steel
within a softer matrix of springier steel gives Damascusweapons a hard cutting edge combined with a tough flexibility"
As I understand it, the Japanese blade smiths achieve the same outcome by laminating a thin layer of very hard steel, which forms the cutting edge, with a soft layer or layers of iron or stainless to provide a cushioning effect for the hard and brittle steel. This seems to me to be a more economical way of achieving the same outcome.
-
3rd July 2014, 04:36 PM #231
-
7th July 2014, 09:13 PM #232
-
9th July 2014, 01:31 PM #233
Materials: Carbon nanotubes in an ancient Damascus sabre | ReadCube Articles
Takes a while to open, but worth it
-
20th August 2014, 01:47 PM #234Hewer of wood
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- Location
- Melbourne, Aus.
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 12,746
A step into left field
Here's some reading for your amusement gentlemen. The author doesn't know much about JP knives and it's offered for the absurdity of the knife standard some Yanks pursue:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/11/24/sharper
Neil, on further use of edges done with the Sigma #10k grit, with the stainless Nakirri there's a clear difference.Cheers, Ern
-
21st August 2014, 01:14 PM #235
Thanks Ern for posting the link to that article, which I found to be very interesting reading. I wouldn't have expected to see such an informed article in a non-specialised publication, but then we have become so used to the mediocracy of Murdoch publications down here.
Yes, the article is light on its coverage of traditional Japanese knife makers, but does provide some accurate coverage of the fundamental differences between Western and Japanese knives (eg on steeling) and it is good to get an update on where the upper end of the Western knife tradition is heading.
Descended as I am from Western blacksmiths (Welsh that go back four centuries), I am not prejudiced against a good Western blade, it's just that fewer of us are now butchering our own meat and for most of what we do now in our home kitchens the Japanese knives do a better job. For the occasional task that requires a tougher (ie less brittle) blade it is good to have a suitable Western blade available to do the job, like slicing up the Qld Blue pumpkins. And, most importantly, for when some family members and friends get into your kitchen!
Thanks also for the update on the Sigma #10K. I tend to find myself that the finer grits do give a more durable edge. Whether it is worth the extra expense is probably a matter of personal judgement. If anyone is thinking of venturing into this territory they might also like to consider the Hishiboshi, as well as the Sigma, which I have recently reviewed, but not in comparison to the Sigma #10K.Neil
-
23rd August 2014, 11:56 AM #236
Sorry I'm coming a bit late to this thread, but I have to jump in on a couple of points:
Perhaps the reason that Damascus steels faded out of existence, is because the "inferior" steel of the Europeans could kill just as well and was easier to produce? Although at the time, I'm sure the Crusaders fled in fear at the sight of silk scarves being sliced so easily (a skill obviously overlooked at Crusader school). Either that, or the invaders felt it was too inhumane to kill with such dull weapons. (No serious discussion expected by the preceding ).
But seriously, the Japanese method of layering/laminating steel has existed from at least the 7th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakuni, (there are extant museum examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kogarasu_Maru) coming to Japan from Korea or China (probably via India, but perhaps going the other way?) In any case, the Japanese refined the method until it became uniquely their own, as they did/do with the smelting of Tamahagane. This has remained relatively unchanged to the present day. Any reference to Japanese steels as Damascus or as damask/damascene is incorrect (at least with respect to swords - what they are doing with kitchen knives and tools is different again).
Modern attempts to re-create Damascus steel may have succeeded, but with a three century break, it likely remains a lost art.
-
23rd August 2014, 12:19 PM #237
-
20th October 2014, 02:29 AM #238
Just a bit of perhaps useful info for anyone heading to Japan on a kitchen knife hunting expedition, and I thought this is probably the best thread to put it in.
SWMBO and I are currently in Kochi City in Shikoku (the smallest of Japan's four main islands). We've been wandering around Shikoku for the past few days having a good look at castles. There are quite a few castles here where the tenshu (central tower) wasn't totally destroyed after the Meiji Restoration. But that's not the point of this.
On our way to Kochi Castle, we discovered the Sunday markets not too far from Kochi Station. The market takes over one side of one of the main roads, and continues for quite a good distance. The stalls are mostly fruit, vegetables and fish, but there were also about four or five stalls I saw selling a huge range of kitchen knives.
I'm not into knives (I use an old one I bought in Japan roughly 25 years ago), and even if SWMBO had let me stop to look at them, they wouldn't have meant much to me. Plus it would have meant that I would have had to look at all the kanna and chisels they had in their shops, and there's the rest of the day gone. SWMBO was too smart to let that happen. But I've no doubt that the knife experts here would have fun.
Shikoku is probably not one of the first places people visiting Japan would go to, and Kochi City perhaps even less so, but if you happen to be passing through the island, and intend to visit Kochi, adding the Sunday markets to your itinerary might prove to be interesting. Unfortunately, I can't give any more info than that because I was dragged back as soon as I started to head over to look at the knives.
DesSee some of my work and general shoji/kumiko information at kskdesign.com.au
My Instagram page
My YouTube channel
-
20th October 2014, 07:57 AM #239Hewer of wood
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- Location
- Melbourne, Aus.
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 12,746
You can trust a woodie to smell where there are edge tools Thanks for that info.
As an aside I was looking for whetstones as my son expressed an interest in sharpening his VG10 Nakiri and came across this set from Stu that includes a flattening plate: http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=1668Cheers, Ern
-
20th October 2014, 08:40 AM #240
Similar Threads
-
TCT Knives?
By REALOldNick in forum JOINTERS, MOULDERS, THICKNESSERS, ETCReplies: 18Last Post: 17th July 2011, 08:28 PM -
Knives
By pommyphil in forum JAPANESE HAND TOOLSReplies: 3Last Post: 4th March 2011, 02:05 PM -
Japanese knives.
By rsser in forum JAPANESE HAND TOOLSReplies: 107Last Post: 15th September 2010, 11:56 PM -
some knives i've made lately
By holmsy2000 in forum METALWORK FORUMReplies: 0Last Post: 16th September 2006, 11:33 AM -
Jointer Knives
By Bushmiller in forum HAND TOOLS - POWEREDReplies: 8Last Post: 11th September 2006, 12:35 AM