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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pops View Post

    Do you get a lot of use out of your Deba Neil? I think Ern seems to give his a real work out.
    Thanks Pops

    On the Deba, I find I use it more than I expected. Certainly far more than the Nakkiri. I would rank it No3 after the petty. My main uses are for heavy cutting (pumpkin, corn cobs and the like). If you get one, go with a heavy blade and a thick spine. The thick spine helps with thumping with the heel of the other hand on the back of the knife to drive the knife through tough stuff... the nearest I get to a chopping action with any of my Japanese knives, but I still try to avoid the edge cutting right through and 'hitting' down on the board. The extra weight helps with this cutting action.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pops View Post
    Do you get a lot of use out of your Deba Neil? I think Ern seems to give his a real work out.
    Cheers
    Pops
    Yes, thanks from me too for your posts and your advice Neil.

    These are thoroughbred tools in all senses of the term.

    Seems I just used my big Deba as a carthorse, blocking down a pumpkin, cos I chipped out a section about 9mm long and 3mm deep

    The diff. cp. the past was that I used it to divide large chunks, rather than take thick slices off the end (a right bevel knife it is). So the demand on the tensile strength of the edge was too high.

    So tonight we are having pumpkin soup enlivened by a bit of blue steel. The family will be warned.

    And the only efficient way I can see of redoing the big primary bevel is on the Tormek freehand. Will have to take my own advice that it's only a tool.

    Some Dutch courage might help
    Cheers, Ern

  4. #78
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    Didn't help.

    Was too grabby; long primary bevel pressed down on the Tormek wheel, took off three times. Needed pressure freehand to register the bevel.

    Then to the jig. This had to change the geometry of the primary bevel but needs must.

    Soo ... that worked to regrind the whole bevel (thank you Mr Tormek) but the finger pressure was enough to fracture the blue steel at several points.

    Regraded the wheel to the putative #1000 and continued to grind away the nick and most of the fracture points.

    Then worked the hollow back on bench whetsones from #1000 to #8000.

    All up, compared to the original, it looks like rubbish but will prob. cut OK. Tomorrow I'll do some bench whetstone work on the primary bevel to produce a very small 2ndary bevel to try to match what it came with.

    The process answered a question I had about this blue steel edge. Why wasn't it so prone to rusting as the Watanabe Gyoto with the same blue steel edge? Both had had the same cleaning and oiling treatments after use. The climbing grind marks up the primary bevel and over the only Damascus figure evident (sob) produced oxidation in the 'end grain' in minutes with the Tormek.

    Answer: over to you ;-}
    Cheers, Ern

  5. #79
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    Hi Ern,

    Ouch! I cringed reading your post. Enough to make a grown man cry I reckon. Feel ya pain mate.

    Am glad I am mostly using my cheapy knives at the moment.

    Let us know how your Deba ends up.

    Cheers
    Pops

  6. #80
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    Big Ouch!... Ern

    But, as you say, it's just a tool. And, other than your time, you have lost very little. There is more than a lifetime of cutting steel left in that Deba to play around with and get back into good working order.

    You did exactly what I have done when knives have been returned to me from family and friends (and friends of friends.. ) for rehabbing. I don't have a 'Torment', so in my case I have used the belt sander to do the bulk of the work. Belt sanders run slower and cut cooler than bench grinders and if used carefully you can avoid cooking the cutting steel. It does require a light hand and a confident touch. I practice each time on mock knives before attacking the real thing.

    I could also use the diamond wheel now that I have that. It also raises very little heat from grinding, but the belt sander has a much wider grinding surface and allows for more flexibility in reproducing bevel angles.

    From there I go to the coarse (#200 or #300) waterstones. If anyone is looking for a stone in that range I can recommend the #240 Sigma Power Select II. The old King #300 is aso a reasonable performer. Starting with the #1000 stone will do the job, but just more slowly. From there I work up through the grits to my satisfaction.

    On the oxidisation of the Damascus cladding, two possibilities. The alternating layers below the outermost layer may have less oxidisation resistance and this has shown up when exposed during wet grinding. The cladding was probably protected with lacquer when it left the maker and remained so until exposed during rehabbing. Another possible cause is the flux that is used to weld the cladding layers together, again exposed during rehabbing. I have observed that the flux line in my Watanabe knives develops some oxidisation colour before the blue steel starts to show any. Is the oxodisation concentrated in any way related to the Damascus pattern on your knife, Ern?

    A fresh coat of lacquer immediately after the waterstones might stop the Damascus from re-oxidising. The Japanese use their traditional lacquer from the urushi tree. They use it on miso bowls so it must be food safe when cured. Not having ready access to urushi I have used western metal lacquer spray myself. Not sure how food safe that is, but it does protective the metal from any oxidisation. I assume that it is not too toxic, otherwise it wouldn't be recommended for door handles, hand railings and the like, but then those are not in contact with food.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  7. #81
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    Bingo.

    To clean the Camellia oil off before using the Tormek I used acetone, and that showed that the knife had been lacquered.

    And the oxidation follows a forging line (if it were wood, call it the late growth ring).
    Cheers, Ern

  8. #82
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    Update:

    Worked the right side grind on Sigma PS IIs from #240 to #3000 and then polished the bevel close to the edge with the Sigma Power #8000.

    Quite happy with the results.

    There's still a couple of coarse Tormek grind marks on the primary bevel to remind me about tensile strength

    Originally the Deba had a very small fairly obtuse 2ndary bevel, then 3mm or so of flat bevel and then above that the remaining bevel was somewhat convex.

    Reproducing that was beyond my skills so I know have at the edge a few mm of slightly convex bevel that's more obtuse than the rest. Will see how it goes.

    Agree with Neil about the #240. Cuts fast; also dishes fast so varying the strokes is the next thing to learn.
    Cheers, Ern

  9. #83
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    Apologies for the misspelling above.

    Just to add re corrosion protection: after doing the bevel on the Deba I found the Incralac can last used years ago was missing presumed empty so resorted to Extreme Duty Silicon Spray.

    The maker claims it's approved by US authorities for use in chicken meat processing plants.

    That doesn't give particular cause for confidence and I can't say how long it will last but it seems to be OK as a stop-gap.
    Cheers, Ern

  10. #84
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    Interesting solution, Ern. Let us know how it goes.

    Just one thought; maybe clean the silicone off the knife before resharpening. I understand that one of the known qualities of Silicone is its ability to repel water and form a water barrier. Perhaps none of that will transfer to the waterstone once the silicone has set, but maybe not a risk worth taking on your most expensive waterstone.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  11. #85
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    Hamilton, VICTORIA
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    Default This is what I bought

    I love my Japanese chisels and saws, they really are worth the extra dollars you have to pay
    I decided to have a go and get myself a set of knives. I've had a good look around and this is what I decided on. One of each from this range

    HD Series Japanese Knife,Japanese Kitchen Knife,Japanese Cutlery,Japanese Chef's Knives.Com

    They are pretty good, the KD series are obviously better but I couldn't really justify the price

    The thing I have found really interesting is, I have several DMT diamond sharpening stones, I use the really fine one to sharpen these knives, finishing off with a lump of leather whetted down with WD40

    I reckon I could circumcise a duck at five feet by just pointing at it.

    They are incredible knives. I will one day get the KD series.

    I wash each by hand, I don't allow anyone else to use them and I made a selection of kauri chopping boards from offcuts

    It works for me
    Hope this helps someone decide
    Best wishes, AA

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by aalstin View Post

    i reckon i could circumcise a duck at five feet by just pointing at it.
    . . . . . .
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



  13. #87
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    Default Iyo stone for touching up an edge

    May be of interest ...

    As an optional extra with an order from 330mate an Iyo stone was included.

    It's 40x40mm and I've started using it to touch up the Japanese knives when the change is felt from swish to push. It's quick and easy.

    Neil suggested in an old thread that its grit is somewhere over #1000. Click
    Cheers, Ern

  14. #88
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    Hi Ern,

    Yes, have thought about getting a couple of those small stones he sells individually every now and then.

    But was not sure on exactly what one was buying, as I believe he uses 'stock' photos to advertise and you could end up with something that is not the same as the photo, quite different in quality, (as has been my previously experience with that seller). Has really put me off.

    On a large bevel I think it would be a handy touch-up method as you have said Ern.

    Your reminder just may entice me to consider one or two.

    Cheers
    Pops

  15. #89
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    In the link to Neil's early post, some data is provided on what the Iyo stone types are and do.

    My little lump gets most outings on the blue steel Gyuto; shortish bevel on both sides, and the most prone to corrosion (there's a new 'auto' jug under the knife rack and the bleeding thing takes too long to auto off. Steam beats camellia oil dammit. ... Next kitchen I design will have .... sigh, dream on.)
    Cheers, Ern

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post

    Neil suggested in an old thread that its grit is somewhere over #1000. Click
    Typically naturals start with the fresh mud at their coarsest grit size and then the mud progressively break down in use to a finer grit size. My Aoto starts at about #2000 and breaks down to about #4000. However, unlike synthetic stones, naturals retain a range of grit sizes no matter how long you work the mud. It is this variation in grit size that creates the micro serrations that are valued by some Japanese knife users. Of no consequence if using a chopping action but a noticeable advantage for a slicing action, in my experience.
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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