Thread: A revelation...

Glad to hear it. Stick around here - we'll be happy to pull you along.

Steve

I am curious to know what type of Western saw you have been using. Some are godawful and should not be used at all. I just wonder if you have had an apples versus apples experience? I used both types but mostly Western saws because they cope better with hardwoods.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I'm sure you're right Derek. I'm probably not comparing apples with apples.

I have been using a Jackson tenon saw and an old cross cut saw I inherited from my Grandfather stamped Warranted Superior, which to my understanding would be a generic brand?

Although I've not used a high quality Western saw I seem to feel in control and more comfortable with the back saw. I'm sure it's probably either technique or quality of the saws that's my problem with the Western saws. I'll still be persevering until I can afford a decent one or maybe get the ones I have reconditioned.

I'm certainly open to suggestions if you have any.

Hi Denin

On the positive side, your experience demonstrates what remarkable value-for-money Japanese saws can be! On the down side, they are not really suited for Australian hardwoods - I have broken many teeth in my time in spite of careful sawing. There are Japanese blades out that are intended for hardwoods, but these are not sold by Bunnings.

Bunnings only cater for the lower end of the spectrum. The Western saws you get from them are Cheap-and-Nasty. They cannot be compared with a cheap Japanese saw. The teeth are generally impulse sharpened and the set far, far too great. They will be difficult to hold to a line and produce rough results.

Definitely not Apples and Apples.

A good Western saw is a pleasure to use. For a cheapish high quality one, look at the Veritas (Lee Valley) saws.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Not sure if I made it clear but both the saws I have been using are period saws, not off the shelf at Bunnings. I'll be sure to look into Veritas when I have the opportunity. In the meantime I'll be sure to take my care with Australian hardwoods.

Thanks very much for your input Derek.

I love my Japanese pull saw too. I started out with a cheapy from Bunnings and I really liked it. It just seems to cut easier. I also recently got a nice one from Carbatec. (Can't remember which one off the top of my head. A dovetail saw anyway.) They are the bees knees for cutting pine. The little furniture group I am part of at the club only used pine for the first few projects, and everyone elses end grain is torn to b*^&%^&. Mine is beautiful. I know that are not very suited to hard woods. so might get another one that is when I get to it. Right now I'm not using woods that are a problem.

I have used Groggies really expensive western saw. It was amazing, but there is no way my budget will ever stretch to one of those.

I started with Japanese saws, and soon switched to Japanese tools for most of my work.
Careful, Denim -- they're addictive!
And welcome to the J-tools Anonymous meeting! There are wonders out there waiting for you.

Originally Posted by yojimbo

I started with Japanese saws, and soon switched to Japanese tools for most of my work.
Careful, Denim -- they're addictive!
And welcome to the J-tools Anonymous meeting! There are wonders out there waiting for you.

Yes, Denim, welcome to the forum.

As Yojimbo has said, there is another whole world of woodworking awaiting you should you travel down similar paths to the members of this forum.... it can begin with a successful experience with just one Japanese tool...

My experience with Japanese saws has been mixed. Both my best and worst softwood saws are Japanese pull saws. My best one (a Tadayuki Mitsukawa ryoba nokogiri) is my go to saw for that type of work... it sings! My worst saw (by a long way) is also a ryoba nokogiri that I swear at whenever I inadvertently use it my mistake.... Just mentioned this to point out that not all Japanese woodworking tools are automatically good quality.

I'm also quite fond of my old Robert Sorby Kangaroo Works backsaw for hardwoods.

.....

Originally Posted by NeilS

I'm also quite fond of my old Robert Sorby Kangaroo Works backsaw for hardwoods.

.....

So what exactly is one of these? What I like about japanese saws is the narrow kerf and the way the teeth are not wider that the body of the saw. Is the above mentioned "backsaw" also used on the pull stroke? Or does "back saw" just mean it has a strengthened back?

Originally Posted by tea lady

So what exactly is one of these? What I like about japanese saws is the narrow kerf and the way the teeth are not wider that the body of the saw. Is the above mentioned "backsaw" also used on the pull stroke? Or does "back saw" just mean it has a strengthened back?

Yes, TL, the 'back' refers to the metal strip on the top (back) of the blade to keep it rigid. Backsaws are both pushed and pulled. The Japanese version is the dozuki.

The Sorby is a western style push saw made in Sheffield. You will be familiar with their turning tools, for which they are best known. The blade is thicker than the equivalent Japanese sized (ie tooth size) saw because it is pushed. And, yes, a pulled saw can be made thinner and has a narrower kerf. But the tooth profile on most Japanese saws do not cope so well with our hardwoods. So, if you work with both soft and hardwoods it's good to have both.

There is minimal tooth set on rip saws, but nearly all crosscut saws have some set on them. It's just less noticeable on the thinner pull saws.

.....

Originally Posted by yojimbo

I started with Japanese saws, and soon switched to Japanese tools for most of my work.
Careful, Denim -- they're addictive!
And welcome to the J-tools Anonymous meeting! There are wonders out there waiting for you.

I have the perfect solution to that possible addiction - lack of funds. I'll make do with what I've got for now. Although I always interested in trying new tools so I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to try different Japanese tools as time goes on.

Neil, the saw I've got is only a Bunnings cheaping and when I get the opportunity to buy a new one I'll be sure to ask your advice.

Denim

Originally Posted by Denim

Neil, the saw I've got is only a Bunnings cheaping and when I get the opportunity to buy a new one I'll be sure to ask your advice.

Denim

I like that bunnings cheapy too. But an actual japanese Doduki is a beautiful thing. Maybe for your next birthday? (They turn up on ebay occasionally. )

Happy Birthday

Originally Posted by TP1

Happy Birthday

Thanks very much.

Tea Lady: I'm sure I'll get in before then.