Thread: Japanese finishing

Originally Posted by underused

I know this is slightly off the topic of "hand tools", but its related to things Japanese, in Japan, and I wanted Soatoz to see it

Soatoz, (or Schtoo) Ive been looking for a shellac finish (or something similar) but havent had any luck. Do Japanese use this? I asked the Japanese Furniture maker down the road, about finishes. All he said is "Oil" Maybe he thought I was trying to get his secret recipe
Ive used uletan ウレタン、 but dont like it much. So now im stuck using danish oil forever
Any help appreciated
Gary.

Hi Gary

You are located in Japan too?! Wow.

I think the furniture maker was kind of intimidated by you or something. Many Japanese tend to be very shy especially towards foreigners!!! because of their language problem. And especially the older generations. They think that western people are kind of superior, since Japan's defeat in last WW was so overwhelming... If you get intimidated, then they'll be even more intimidated!! So you keep talking to them, and let them know that you are alright. Then one day they'll start smilin' Who knows? maybe he'll tell you the ultra secret formula!

Anyway,

What do you think Schtoo? The most traditional would be Urushi right?

Japanese traditional laquer would definitely be urushi. Urushi is used for japan wares. It is processed from a kind of Japanese native poison ivy. You know when you go to Japanese style restaurant, they serve miso-soup in a wooden bowl. Inside is usually black or red right? That's urushi. Usually imitation but. It has this slightly matt slightly wet luster. Very nice.

Japanese have used urushi from ancient times. Black and red is the most common, but I think there are transparent ones and various coloured ones now. Very difficult to use, but once mastered the luster and the hardness is one of a kind. Since you are in Japan why don't you try and challenge! You'd need to go to a special shop to get them. Tokyu Hands must have it, if you are in Tokyo area (where do you live mate!?)

But there is another modern type of laquer, significantly easier to use. It is called "Cashew." As the name suggest this is a replacement laquer for urushi made from Cashew nuts. I think these are the most popular out of natural laquers in Japan. Anyone who is too sensitive to use urushi can use this laquer, and the result is quite good. You can get them from any hardware stores.

Japanese natural stones are usually painted with this laquer to prevent chipping and cracking. Before, people used urushi for this too. They used black urushi for their best stones, red for med quality, green for daily use, something like that.

Most of the expensive stones I'll be selling would be laquered myself. Anyone who already own a good stone, try it! It'll look nicer too.

Hi Soatoz,
Thanks for the reply mate.
I live in Fukuoka City. No Tokyu hands here unfortunately...
Ive heard of Urushi, and heard it takes a long time, and is extremely difficult.
I was thinking more of a shellac type finish. I havent been able to find much variation in finishes here.
I'll look into the Cashew finish. It sounds like an oil finish? Camellia oil seems to be quite a popular finish.

Im not a very intimidating bloke Soatoz I reckon I'll have to take a case of beers over one afternoon. Japanese always loose their shyness after a few and a leg of ham for his bloody dog...it nearly has my leg off everytime I wander down there

Oh dear.

I read somewhere that Japan is the largest user of shellac in the world. Usually medicinal products though...

Can't remember the brand, maybe Alesco, has premixed shellac. Full of wax, but it's the right stuff and it's the only time I have ever seen shellac here until a new mob turned up at the hardware shop, which is...

Turner color works. They do a dewaxed blonde shellac, premixed of course. It is very, very good but a 500ml bottle is Y3,000. They also have a line of finishes that are apparently pretty good, but I am not that rich thanks.

Good luck finding the proper alcohol to dissolve flakes, if you can get flakes...

You used urethane, nothing new or unusual. It is a tad painful at times, but whaddya do? Try the water based stuff and wipe it on. If you can deal with the grain rasing and colour, it's pretty good and after curing is very, very tough.

Another trick is get some oil (linseed is widely available.) and mix it 1:4 with oil based urethane, then add 4 parts paint thinner (usume). There is your danish oil. Or you can just buy Watco.


True urushi isn't viable since it's very, very labour intensive. Get the wood smooth, then apply a coat. Rub it back. Then apply another coat with a mouse hair brush, rub it back with powdered deer horn, repeat several dozen times. Then bin the piece of junk you created and try again till you get it right. If you manage to work it out for yourself, you will prolly die the next day of old age. Very difficult to do well, but those that can earn a respectable living from it. So they should because it's a pig of a job.


What I can get around here (not a big city at all), I have boiled linseed oil, shellac, urethane (water and oil), Watco, teak oil, laquer, old school varnish, e-abura (plant oil, dries fast and smells pretty good.), Numerous stains and dies and water based artist colours.

It's not an enviable collection of finishing materials, but it's enough to get the job done.

Fukuoka must have more stuff available than here, and there is a good Hands in Hiroshima. Failing that, get to Kobe but avoid Osaka hands.

Cheers for the words of wisdom lads
Schtoo, is the shellac called shellac, or something else?

Sometimes its easier finding things in a small town compared to a big city. Theres areas of the city Ive hardly been to, and Ive been living here full time for six years im gunna have to open my eyes, and start looking harder.
cheers

Originally Posted by underused

Cheers for the words of wisdom lads
Schtoo, is the shellac called shellac, or something else?

Sometimes its easier finding things in a small town compared to a big city. Theres areas of the city Ive hardly been to, and Ive been living here full time for six years im gunna have to open my eyes, and start looking harder.
cheers

Woo, good thing Schtoo-kun was here to help you out! Looks like he's really knowledgeable about various finishes as well. Shellac is called シェラック or セラック yeah.

I don't know if you like raw seafood but Fukuoka's got the best sashimi and mentaiko! Oh, and tonkotsu ra-men. with sho-chu... Oh-------- how I envy you

Soatoz,

My wife likes them all, being Japanese
The smell on fukuoka ramen is enough to put me off (smells like old socks) the streets are full of Yatai's, in the evening selling the stuff. Dont like mentai either

Cheers for helping me out with this one. I'll have to find a decent shop to buy some finishing products

Originally Posted by underused

Soatoz,

My wife likes them all, being Japanese
The smell on fukuoka ramen is enough to put me off (smells like old socks) the streets are full of Yatai's, in the evening selling the stuff. Dont like mentai either

Oh your wife is Japanese? Then you must have already knew what I wrote about the common nature of Japanese people

Yeah, those are definitely acquired tastes. But like any acquired tastes, these are highly addictive, so you might get hooked on some day!!

それじゃーまたねーーー