Thread: Koyamaichi

Hi Derek,

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Soatoz
After a discussion on Iyoroi chisels on another forum several months ago, where there had been complaints about the finish over the past few years, one of the knowledgable members noted how pleased he had been with Koyamaichi.

I don't know exactly why there were complaints about the finish of Iyoroi chisels, but I am assuming that was because those were the cheaper chisels from Iyoroi which the maker concentrated on cutting performance but didn't intend to make them good looking from the first place.

I have ordered Iyoroi's recent Mokume chisels and Yari-gannnas as samples (since they were very nice, I'll be selling small quantity of them shortly), and they were ve~ry cheap for such kind of luxurious finish, but the quality was surprisingly nice. The ji-gane used for this chisel has just been collected from a very old department store building that was demolished recently. There's much to tell about this ji-gane, but anyway, as you can see, if you pay certain amount you can expect this kind of quality from Iyoroi. Iyoroi is a good maker.

http://www.geocities.com/soatoz/ebay/Iyoroi/index.html

I think we have to compare tools from the same level of price range among various makers to say which maker's tools are the most cost effective. I feel that cost effectiveness of Iyoroi is very very high.

A month or so ago I came across a few NOS Koyamaichi dovetail chisels on eBay: these were circa 1996, made from 'white paper' N02, with red oak handles. Beyond the comments on the forum, I had little info, and I could not find anything on the web. However, these were going really cheaply and so I decided to buy them anyway.

I suppose from the UK, right? Since "all" the photos are out of focus I can't see any details of their tools. But the brand and the finish according to the written description suggest high quality tools, and for that the price is quite reasonable.
Actually I have been watching them too! Lamination seems good, and the shape of the chisel looks nice too. I think for that price it was a good buy.

I have not really had the opportunity to use them much (my projects have involved paring rather than chopping), so it is difficult to rate their edge holding, etc.

White paper #2 from Koyamaichi should be reasonably good (but not superb) for paring. But the edge holding ability when used as striking chisel should not be too good. You should see many chips if you don't be careful not to hit too hard or wiggle in the wrong direction when pulling out from the wood. It is more of a sprinter type of tool. It should be okay for most paring work, but for skilled sharpeners and users, it should feel a little soft and brittle. It should suit beginners to intermediate users, and softer woods. But again, for that price, the quality should be more than satisfactory. Tell me your impression, if you have the chance to use it.

White papers are very difficult to work with. Masters of White paper such as Kikuhiromaru, Nagahiro, Kiyotada (no longer in production) and not to forget Ichihiro (passed away), can make super hard and tenacious blade with it, but basically cheaper White paper tools should be considered economy tools. The maker usually choose White steel because it is cheaper than Blue steel as a raw material.

So I usually go for Blue steel tools for economy tools. Cheaper Blue steel tools aren't that hard to sharpen either, so I think it suits the beginners as well. And if, a not so expensive White steel tool turned out to be quite good, I am very happy, because high quality White steel tools are very expensive. Once in a while you find such not so expensive (but never cheap) White steel tools.

This is very important, so since it came up, let me make it clear.

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White steel is about 30% cheaper than Blue steel as a raw material. So it is used for cheap tools for that sake, and for another reason for super expensive tools. It is much harder to work with but if you can forge it properly, it becomes a stunning tool. So, the most expensive Japanese chisels are usually White steel made, and these highest quality White steel tools are usually as expensive or even more expensive than Blue steel tools of the same quality.
===

Koyamaichi seem to focus more on sculpting tools, and Iyoroi on carpentry tools. They are both from Miki city in Hyogo, and I think they are both reliable makers, good at producing cost effective tools. Personally I wouldn't order super expensive tools to them. I would order those to other blacksmiths (Tasai, Nagahiro, Kiyohisa, Kikuhiromaru, Kunikei are my favorite). But if my budget was limited, they both will definitely be candidates.

Hi Soatoz

Many thanks for the prompt reply. I will clarify a few details.

I am aware that Iyoroi have a number of different pricing and quality levels. I have many of their lower end bench chisels and consider these to be still excellent for their intended purpose (for me, that is, which is to be used with a genno in hardish timber). I do not like using hooped chisels for paring as I find them uncomfortable. Long handles are great, and I love the balance and delicacy of the paring chisels that I have.

I have a couple of Matsumura dovetail chisels for striking, and I wanted to add a few more of the dovetail type. The comments on the (other) forum indicated that the recently mannufactured Iyoroi in the lower price range were variable in quality. It was David Charlesworth who was so complimentary about Koyamaichi (he gets a chance to try out and use a large number of chisels with his students).

The chisels did come from the UK, and I must say that Peter (who sold them) was very prompt in shipping. I have bought several items from him, including a very nice laminated blade for a Stanley #18 knucklejoint block plane, and all the prices were at a "give away" level as far as I was concerned. At this price I figured "what the heck", it would be fun to try them out. For example, I paid an average of 10-15 GBP ($24-36 AUD) per chisel. The chisels arrived boxed and these had old (1995/6) price stickers (that looked genuine - ?) that ranged from 68-120 GBP. Altogether I bought 4 chisels: 6, 12, 18 and 24mm.

My one reservation was that the Koyamaichi were white steel. My understanding is that these get sharper than the blue steel, but are less durable and better suited to paring than being struck. Still, at their price ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

My one reservation was that the Koyamaichi were white steel. My understanding is that these get sharper than the blue steel, but are less durable and better suited to paring than being struck.

I personally feel that unless they are compared as super finishing plane blades, not many can feel the difference between WS and BS sharpness. But the ease of shapening for WS, and durability for BS is quite noticeable.

Average of 10-15 GBP ($24-36 AUD) per chisel? That is a threat to my business!

Ha---haha

Talk to you again Derek