Thread: 4WD vs SUV

I like the SUV's/4WD's that come with space saver spare tyres

Get yourself a 4WD if you intend going sand driving or if you intend to tow off the beaten track at all. I am sure that many of the current "SUVs" could do the job but for safetys' sake in all respects I suggest that a stronger, more capable vehicle would be best.
I live at the beach, I am a member of the local 4wd club and do a lot of sand driving. The "SUV" type vehicles do get out there but I seem to rescue a lot more of them than I do "real" 4wds.

Originally Posted by Fuzzie

I like the SUV's/4WD's that come with space saver spare tyres

Yes, me too!!

I wonder what brand of idiocy and ignorance was used to put a space saver in the much vaunted VW Tiguan!!!

Sounds like you need a real 4WD.

Though of course they come in many different flavours and abilities. The Prado, Landcruiser and Patrol all have ladder frame chassis, so they are real solid trucks and handle like them too. Unbelievable off road though! Something like a Pajero is a unibody construction so is more car like. It will handle better on road, but not be as good off. It is still a very good performer off road, just not up to the same level as the real beasts.

Don't take a soft roader. Remember, a good 4WD will get you there, but more importantly will get you back too. It's not just how good the 4WD system is, but how solid the whole car is built. Soft roaders are good for the sand but that's it really. If you're just touring around the country and will take tours into the rough spots, they would certainly do though.

I did a trip through the red centre in a hired 100 series landcruiser. Man that thing was huge and solid. Gutless though as it was the non-turbo diesel. Took about 10 mins to get to highway speed. Nothing stopped it though We met some grey nomads towing a caravan behind a nice 80 series cruiser, with all of the 4wd kit on it, which was cool. We were discussing a proposed trip from Hermansburg into Palm Valley and they said they would take a tour as it would be the same price if they blew a tire on the 4wd. Fair enough, but if that's the case, tow the caravan behind a Subaru Outback or something similar and have a much more comfortable time in the process.

If I was going to do an Aus tour, I'd be aiming at a Pajero. Would handle the rough stuff pretty well but be more comfy for the time spent just touring at speed. Failing that, an old 80 series Landcruiser beater for when you just want to go all out off road and not care about the paint

Cheers,
Dave

I suppose this is a topic for varying opinions. I had a 74 range rover years ago, man steer no air. A friend who had a 79 probably still has the video of a cruiser utterly failing to cross the jardine where he'd just forded.

So your going touring. For offroad work you can as you say do a tour, or hire vehicles as you need them. If you choose to buy you need to consider the end use. A landcruiser is a fine choice for dirt roads, and a very ordinary choice for rock climbing. My forester is surprisingly good off road (not what I bought it for) but isn't a great towing vehicle. Not all 4B's are super expensive (I still can't believe a 200 series is $90k). You can for example get a outback diesel for about $44RRP, and I'd be looking for about 10% off that for cash. Subaru's are remarkably tough and reliable and low maintenance, but the dash on the new outback and liberty is vile, and they certainly aren't the first choice for a whole range of uses.

If I were going seriously off road I definitely wouldn't buy a new or good cond car. Your going to wreck it, almost certainly, so buy a cheap old disco or something, get it reliable and buy something nice for the blacktop. You couldn't give me a mitsubishi or a nissan. A friend just bought a new pajero and i reckon he'd sell it to you cheap if you wanted it. Tremendously disapointed. You'd need to pay me a lot to tow your jeep away. I'm a big fan of full chassis but in truth you only need it if your towing. The unibodies they build these days are very very good.

The tiguan, like my forester, is a school run car. The VW doesn't even have low range, and if you hate the space saver check out the electric handbrake, the tooth rattling ride and no interior space. I was shocked when I drove it just how awful it was. Nice seats...

Get the right tool for the job. 2c...

Originally Posted by damian

so buy a cheap old disco or something, get it reliable

By selling it?



Sorry. Couldn't help it. I like landrovers, and have a long family association with them, and agree with most of your points above, but that one was just funny

Cheers,
Dave

Was just wondering if any of you blokes saw the Topgear Bolivia special. Range Rover is the go for sure. Otherwise a Disco. But please don't bother with either the Patrol of the Spanish wanker (Pajero).

We have Cruisers at work and they work and are probably the next best choice. Prados no thanks they are horrid to drive we used to have one and it was unsafe. As for softroaders, they simply are no use when the roads start getting tough.

Has anybody got an opinion on the grey market Mitsubishi Delicas?

There seem to be quite a few sitting around in dealer yards. I've been wondering how reliable one of these 10 year oldish buses would be. The idea of a diesel one for touring out west has passed my mind on occasion and I've also wondered about reconfiguring the load space as a mini camper fitout.

Around town, with all the seats taken out, they would also seem to an option for picking up timber and such, that doesn't fit in my Vectra.

As I understand it they are based on mix of Pajero and Express wagon running gear.

Delicas look to have a horribly high centre of gravity. Not a good thing out in the dunes!
I have owned a Nissan Patrol, a Landcruiser, Several Subies, a Navara (it's for sale if you want a good diesel twincab!) and I have just bought a SWB Pajero. The Paj doesn't get here till tomorrow night but as an off raoder the Navara has been the most versatile/capable. I have just done a lot of searching for a cheap older 4WD. The landies, both Disco and Rangie just weren't roomy enough for a 6 footer and their parts are dear. The Jeeps didn't get a real look in, serious reliability problems with the Cherokees and that plus severe discomfort in the Wranglers. Land cruiser, good but expensive and just bloody big! Patrol, still pretty big. Three mates in our 4wd club have SWB Pajeros, VERY capable cars in the sand. 4 mates have wranglers, all of them have had suspension and transmission problems and all of them have other makes of 4wd for their day to day and long trip drives.

Don't get an old Disco! Ozskaban has it right. Rliable Disco is an oxymoron. Had one for a few years & always something more to fix!! Had a mate who went on a trip with someone who had a new one - Disco 3 I think - went off road & hit a large pot-hole a bit too fast. The electronic systems thought there had been a crash & shut down everything. It could not be restarted in the bush & a VERY expensive tow job to get it to a service centre.

If you want to go bush or beach driving, get an 80 Series Diesel Cruiser. It is still possible to understand the engine & electricals on this car, and they are tough as old boots (or better) Just about any bush mechanic can service them & parts are easy right around the country. And with an older vehicle, you won't feel so bad when you get a few dings & scratches.

Any 4by and juice is going to cost big time, even diesel. Punting around 2 tonne of steel doesn't come cheap. You can expect to pay $2 a litre for ULP in the remoter parts of the country.

If most of the driving is going to be on roads, the capacity of a proper 4by is redundant.

If you are going on tracks, you'll need one. If on remote or rough tracks, going on your own is not a good idea.

Last trip we did over a 1000k on sandy roads (Mereenie Loop) and corrugated dirt (Oodnatdatta Tk, Flinders Ranges) in the Forester and it performed v. well towing a CT of about 750kg gross. Acquired a rattle in the dash and that was it.

It all depends on where you want to go.

My take is that there's a helluva lot of good scenery you can get to with something like a Subaru, Kluger 4WD or a Territory, and to go beyond it take a tour.

PS if thinking Korean, Hyundai rates better than Kia atm for reliability. There's some SUV and 'truck' rankings & reviews here but model names and availability are an issue. Our Kluger is their Highlander eg.

Originally Posted by woodnut

Delicas look to have a horribly high centre of gravity. Not a good thing out in the dunes!
.

I've wondered about that too but maybe it is just an optical illusion. If the running gear is Pajero, it would be mostly like a Pajero weighting - just looks more boxy with the cabin shape. Presumably the cabin metal work is lighter higher up, the weigh would still be concentrated around the engine and drive?

Originally Posted by rsser

Any 4by and juice is going to cost big time, even diesel.
..........................
It all depends on where you want to go.
My take is that there's a helluva lot of good scenery you can get to with something like a Subaru, Kluger 4WD or a Territory, and to go beyond it take a tour.

My first reasonable car was a VW type 3 wagon. It traveled far and wide and was great for sleeping on the back mattress at the end of the day, nice and warm on top of the rear engine.

And it doesn't have to be a 4wd. I think my best touring car so far has been the old Nissan Skyline Wagon. The engine had legs to go just about anywhere. It was even OK on the Bloomfield Track until I got to the first water crossing but I then turned around and took the back dirt road to Cooktown. The big problem it had was on VERY steep gravel driveways it would just spin the rear wheels, big 6 with not much weight over the empty rear load space. Was a great tow car too.

Originally Posted by woodnut

I live at the beach, I am a member of the local 4wd club and do a lot of sand driving. The "SUV" type vehicles do get out there but I seem to rescue a lot more of them than I do "real" 4wds.

I'd hazard a guess that this is more a matter of skill rather than vehicle capacity; guys reckon they've got 4 wheel traction and go boring onto the beach without knowing how to drive on sand and often without dropping tyre pressures.

That said, if an SUV only has on-demand 4WD it's useless in soft sand.

Actually Ern has it right, on any number of occasions I have come upon cars apparently totally bogged on the beaches here and after dropping tyre pressures I have driven them straight out for the owners. Skill and knowledge can't be beat!
My parents, now in their 80's have towed a poptop van all over the country with Subarus. They have killed three. They never ever left the bitumen!