What to buy - a Ute or a Van? Which brand?

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Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

Pretty sure that diesels don't like short runs, or idling for any length of time. I lived 2 kms from work and got a small ute to run around in to save the diesel wear and tear.
Kryn

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That's another misconception about modern diesels.
My van was a 2 year old ex-delivery vehicle and had 60k km on the clock when I got it.

Most days I do at least a single trip of ~1 km in the van to drive the dogs down to the river for a run and then it might sit in the drive for the rest of the day.
Other driving, e.g. shopping, men's shed, family visits, adds maybe 20km total, most of those trips are short between 5 and 10km but not all in the van.
If it's available and load capacity is not needed I do try to use SWMBO's diesel Subaru, not because of wear and tear but being a 2L , the Subaru uses less fuel than the 3L van.
I had the van serviced recently and the mechanic said the engine is in excellent nick.

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Originally Posted by BobL

Have had same mechanic and two Hiaces since 2007. Have had one "eye watering" dealer service in that time (2010?) because it was closer to my place but after that went back to the mechanic. My Hiaces have run like clockwork - not a single problem in that time. The only reason I bought the second one was when some idiot crashed headlong into me while texting on his mobile phone and it totalled both cars. My insurance was only going to give me $15k and I challenged that by getting a vehicle report from my mechanic who had serviced my vehicle just a few days before the crash and it said my vehicle was in super condition. I sent it to the Insurance company and end up with $17.2k

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Obviously can't comment on your specific Dealership experiences so my comments are more of a generalisation and obviously there are exceptions, but the things that the smaller guys/service centres skip on are the things that can potentially cost you heaps. There is a whole list of things that a Dealership goes through/completes as part of their diagnostic and safety checks are things that in majority of cases will not cause a user many issues. eg not checking your brake pad thickness, checking batteries, road testing, free car wash, suspension checks, leaks etc. So yes while you can save money compared to a Dealership service but if you end up needing to call RAC/tow truck at some point it all adds up.

Plus then there are the issues caused by using non-genuine/counterfeit products, generally these issues are felt in the long term (>150,000km) but there are some that are immediate, eg asbestos in brake pads, whilst you may not know the difference in your braking having asbestos floating around when you're on the side of the road changing a tyre is something i'd prefer to avoid. Also having spoken to an engineer for one of the major motoring brands who tells me majority of after market/counterfeit oil filters have a release pressure significantly lower than the genuine product. Which basically means its releasing the oil earlier than it should and therefore not filtering as per vehicle specifications. This then contributes to additional wear and tear on the motor.

Then there's the case of there are some Dealers who are just as bad as the small guy down the road, who will overcharge you/recommend things that are not needed etc because some bean counter in the Dealership is telling them to make more profits.

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Then there's the case of there are some Dealers who are just as bad as the small guy down the road, who will overcharge you/recommend things that are not needed etc because some bean counter in the Dealership is telling them to make more profits

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I agree there are swings and roundabouts - they are probably overall but in different ways as bad/good as each other, so why pay more for the same overall?

I got off with the dealer we bought the Subaru from when the latest Forester had a tricky/intermittent problem that we wanted looked at under warranty. He tried to tell us the problem was probably because we had taken the vehicle to a non-dealer for servicing and he could not find the problem. When it happened again we took the Subaru to another dealer and it turned out to be a manufacturing problem in the turbo manifold and all was fixed under warranty.

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Originally Posted by tonzeyd

not checking your brake pad thickness, checking batteries, road testing, free car wash, suspension checks, leaks etc.

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Brake, coolant and battery checks are all standard by my mechanic. Unlike the dealer who said I had to have brake pads changed at 100k km whether I needed it or not the mechanic monitored wear from service to service so he could better predict when I needed new ones. The mechanic also picks my car up from my place and drops it off.

It also depends on the franchise's view on customer satisfaction. eg I don't send my VW to a Dealership, have never had a good visit there even for warranty related issues, but the wife's Corolla does have all its major services done at the local Dealership. Minor services oil change/checks are done by myself.

Sounds like you're onto a winner with your mechanic

Now that we've sorted out where to get the vehicle serviced.........

A question I had earlier may have gotten buried. As I understand it, a Diesel is good for many more kms than a petrol engine. In other words, purchasing a diesel with say 200,000 kms is not really a big issue, where I could expect a petrol engine to be approaching end of life (or major work).

Am I on the right track?

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Now that we've sorted out where to get the vehicle serviced.........

A question I had earlier may have gotten buried. As I understand it, a Diesel is good for many more kms than a petrol engine. In other words, purchasing a diesel with say 200,000 kms is not really a big issue, where I could expect a petrol engine to be approaching end of life (or major work).

Am I on the right track?

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Yes, but depending on use other components could be up for major work, suspension, brakes, etc

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Now that we've sorted out where to get the vehicle serviced.........

A question I had earlier may have gotten buried. As I understand it, a Diesel is good for many more kms than a petrol engine. In other words, purchasing a diesel with say 200,000 kms is not really a big issue, where I could expect a petrol engine to be approaching end of life (or major work).

Am I on the right track?

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When you start looking at a vehicle that old it becomes much harder to give you a generalisation as so many factors come into play.

Such as service history, owner driving habits, type of fuel used, frequency of servicing, type of products used during service, whether issues were ignored causing stresses to engine etc.

My first car had 250,000km's on the clock before i sold it (petrol) given that it was my first car i thrashed it to no end, did delieveries in it etc and was still going strong when i sold it. Plus modern petrol engines have much tighter tolerances and therefore hard to say how long they will last.

However if you're after a rule of thumb, i generally don't buy any car with more than 150,000k's on the clock.

Yes, that all makes sense. I'm particularly referring to the engine, which is the most expensive thing to repair, followed fairly closely by the transmission.

I don't know how exchange engines go these days but 25 years ago I had a Holden Panel Van that I put an exchange 202 straight six engine into for a total cost of $1100. Drop off in the morning, pu at 4pm. It was a cracker! And the best tuned engine I've ever heard. I must have scored the gun apprentice on that day.

All depends on the type of miles the vehicle has traveled and used for.
How about $4500 for new secondhand Falcon engine change over which was quoted to a mate on a 2000 vehicle a year ago.
Some modern Diesel engines have very specific oil specs that if not used will cause the catastrophic converter to burn out in miles at $1500-$$2500 to replace.

Brett, its a bit hard to be precise with broad statements about engine longevity. A lot depends on how hard the vehicle was driven during its life. You know my 34 year old Landcruiser. It has the original 6 cylinder toyota deisel in it. When I bought it I was No 3 ownner and it had 120,000 on the clock. It now has 440,000km. Still starts and runs well, put the 10 X 5 Tandem Trailer on and its a bit of a slug. You do see a lot of detail in the bush beside the road as you ascend a hill. Going down the other side is quicker. Its never bailed me up!! I went to Orange to pick up a 12" Jointer of 50s era. We went up Victoria Pass to spend the night at the sister in Katoomba. Due to that very sharp corner at the bottom of the Pass She struggled up in first gear 2 wheel drive...that was OK because there were 4 more lower ones in Low Range. Newer generation Diesels, even without Turbos, are quicker. My old dear goes up and down your mountain Hwy with no trouble and on a long trip will return 25 MPG. With the trailer its down to about 18-20 MPG. Maintenance.....it is dearer than our 95 Model V6 Commodore. I know a bloke who bought a brand new Range Rover in 1976, he retired it a few years back and uses it around the paddock. It is a V8 Petrol and he has done 4 rebuilds in that time. His accelerator has one position flat. You get what you pay for.
To sum up, if you find a particular vehicle that ticks the boxes on your wish list you would have to assess its history and merits to get to a decision.
Just to add to ute/van argument, when I have the trailer on picking anything up is not a problem but having to park and leave tools in the trailer can be a problem but the wagon usually ends up with tools locked away. With your fickle weather a van would be hard to beat
One thing in your favour is you should have plenty to choose from without having to travel very far. Good luck.

With regards to Diesel Fuel....you can easily get Fish Shop blend diesel. Yes it does work but some vehicles don't like what it does to oil seals in the injector pump. That can be an expensive exercise. I ran a couple of tanks through the Landcruiser but I stopped and went back to "normal" diesel after hearing some stories

Brett, I'll just pop this one in here ..

The best vehicle for woodworking (and everything else) I have owned or persuaded my wife to own :) ) was a Toyota Tarago. We have been through two, each lasting several years, abused to hell and back, and still came up smiling. Unfortunately, after the last one was totalled with my son at the wheel three years ago (not his fault - a f*ckwit jumped a red light and ended up being T-boned by the Tarago), I could not convince her to get another, and she bought a Golf instead.

Amazing comfort along with satisfactory power and a large capacity storage when the seats are folded down. Loads of headroom. I carted everything in there. The best thing was that, when inside, all was dry when it was raining. Cannot say the same for a ute.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I personally have gone off modern diesels. Had a Prado that was carefully maintained & was planning to keep. At 90,000km found it had a injector problem (& a couple of other minor issues) that was going to cost $5-6 k to get sorted. Traded on a petrol. Old school diesels are simpler

Hi Brett

something that no one's mentioned...

Will you be making many toll road trips?
Some of the vehicles you are looking at are classed as "commercial" on some Toll roads. "Commercial" road tolls are up to 3x the cost of "car" tolls.

Also, as a general rule, short trips are bad for any vehicle.

Yes, a very good point Ian, and I'm glad to say that it has crossed my mind. At the moment those sort of trips are pretty rare, but that may change a little - I may find myself doing more trips to Sutherland Shire from here.

I believe I can rule out utes. A van with a trailer does far more than a ute can do. I have closed all web pages concerning utes. :;

Obviously with a van:
the bigger they are they more useful they are,
but the more expensive they are to run in a number of ways (fuel, tyres, tolls)

I would be happy with a cargo area that will take a 2400x1200 sheet, but wouldn't complain about fitting in 3.2m, such as in a Medium Wheel Base. The really long wheel bases are way overkill for me (fitting in 4m+ cargo). However, headroom is a different story and I wouldn't mind a bit more of that - say a mid roof. This is because I can see myself with some kind of drawer system under a false floor. They may not be the somewhat expensive 400kgs roll out drawers - they might just be my own version of slide outs with waxed runners. Either way it would be nice to have extra head room, especially for camping.

Now that extra height can bite you on the bum in undercover parking areas, but we don't really do much of that here, and there will be the smaller vehicle available for that, so no big deal at all.

During the majority of the week (M-F) the small car just sits out the front, as Lola catches a train to work, so it is largely at my disposal. It is out quite a bit on weekends.

In other words the van would be generally used when it is the vehicle that is required for the task, and a bit more on weekends. It may be that I am attending the local markets quite regularly on weekends, and a van would be very useful to work out of.