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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Default Buying My First Car

    The time has come for me to get a car I am planing to move out of the city in 2018, last year I got my L's and took some lessons with 2018 upon us I have been looking to purchase an automatic car. I have spoken to a few people one is a friend and one is an auto mechanic.

    The summation of their advice is, get a Toyota, then maybe a Subaru/Mazda/Honda, I am told its best to avoid, Holden Ford, BMW, Mercedes or other Euro cars (Even if I have fond memories of my grandfather with his two Series 2 Land Rovers in Europe, and my father who loved his Peugeots we had as children), something made after the year 2000 and that has less done less then 200,000 km. And get a 6cylinder motor for country roads.

    Now my budget is limited to a max of $4000/5000 + $1000 for extra expenses:
    $50 Registration transfer
    $40 Car history report and PPSR check
    $200 Stamp Duty.
    $500 Compulsory Third Party Insurance
    $XXX Road Worthy

    I need a vehicle in which I can move stuff, timber & tools. I think a roof rack will take care of the timber. Also something I can take outside the city for country road trips. That I can use for light off road / unsealed roads so it can take me places where I can go bush walking.

    While I would find a ute most practical, it seems that any ute under 200,000 km will cost over $5000 up to $15,000, I am told because tradies buy and sell them and they artificially inflate the price, because it's a tax right off.

    A van is not really an option becuase again any van in good condition is outside of my price range. Also vans tend to be driven into the ground and worked hard being used mostly for commercial work. Also vans are not the safest crash resistant things.

    So this leaves a wagon/people movers. They have the space, I would just rip out the back seats, put in a raise platform with draws underneath for storage. They are bought and sold by families and my impression of them is that they are used by large families and tend to be looked after a little better.

    So my question is this: what hidden costs have I missed?
    Any thoughts on the advice I have been so far?
    Do you have or know anyone who may have a vehicle suitable to my needs who is looking to sell in my price range?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    38
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    285

    Default

    If you buy a ute you will pay higher tolls

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    se Melbourne
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    Default

    Road Worthy - this should be provided by the seller.
    While the cost of the actual check for the certificate can be quoted by those authorised to issue them, the cost of repairs / modifications to make the vehicle road worthy could be more than the vehicle is worth depending on the condition. Road worthy is only a safety check and is an assesment of the vehicle on the day, at that time. It is not unheard of for good tyres being swapped out after the certifcate is issued or for faults to appear afterwards, eg blown globes.

    Registration - $ 800.80 for twelve months. Often vehicles are sold when registration is close to expiry.

    Books - while not 100% essential can give you an idea of the vehicle history. Owner's manual very useful for basic repairs such as changing a fuse (something I have had to do recently on a couple of cars including one two years old), or a light bulb. Can also cover things like how to work the audio unit and set the clock.

    Go to some car yards and walk around and have a look at vehicles of interest. See what you feel comfortable in. Then hit the internet eg carsales.com.au and see what is available in your price range. Be carefule of hidden costs. Dealers will often include stamp duty and transfer fee, private sellers will not.

    Dealers will guarantee title, private sellers will not.

    Look at the vicroads website https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/ for more information re roadworthy, stamp duty and transfer fees. You can also check when the registration is due to expire (or if it is current). DO NOT drive a vehicle without current registration unless on trade plates.

    Good hunting and good luck.
    Last edited by Handyjack; 30th December 2017 at 01:48 PM. Reason: More info

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Woodstock (Cowra)
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    74
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    Going by your criteria you would be unwise to get an auto, get a manual, auto with potential to carry timber on a rack and tools in back doing country runs = better than even chance of over heating engine/transmission unless it has a separate transmission cooler as well as flogging the guts out of the transmission.
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Default

    My friend is going to take me to a few car yards in my area in January. He says they work on a 30% mark up and there is lots of space to bargain them down.

    I have a concession card so my registration is $290.40.

    "Road Worthy - this should be provided by the seller." Its seems that this not the case in cheaper private sales. I have seen people buy bombs and where forced to pay double what the car was worth to get the road worthy or go to a dodge mechanic. So I am cautious.

    I think buying from a dealer is safer, most include many of the expenses listed above and they offer a warranty for what ever its worth.

    I would have preferred manual cars, and my first lessons was in a manual car. However, while I was told that I picked it up reasonable quickly. I still struggled with controlling the clutch at very low 2-5kph speeds without stalling, not to mention hills and a-holes sitting on their horn if you were not off the mark like F1 driver (Even as the car am driving says "L" learner driver driving school car). So dealing with city traffic and the clutch made very anxious - I am prone to panic attacks (one of the reasons I have put of learning to drive up to now). I was planing to buy an auto and build my driving confidence then after two years I could go for a manual license.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
    Posts
    12,006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thumbsucker View Post
    The time has come for me to get a car
    something made after the year 2000 and that has less done less then 200,000 km. And get a 6cylinder motor for country roads.

    Now my budget is limited to a max of $4000/5000 + $1000 for extra expenses:
    $50 Registration transfer
    $40 Car history report and PPSR check
    $200 Stamp Duty.
    $500 Compulsory Third Party Insurance
    $XXX Road Worthy

    I need a vehicle in which I can move stuff, timber & tools. I think a roof rack will take care of the timber. Also something I can take outside the city for country road trips. That I can use for light off road / unsealed roads so it can take me places where I can go bush walking. You don't need 4WD or AWD to drive on a dirt road. Just slow down.

    So my question is this: what hidden costs have I missed? Third party collision insurance -- to cover you should you crash into someone else's car, fence, etc.
    $$ for 4 new tires. At your price range, it is unlikely that any vehicle will have much more than the legal minimum tread depth.
    my other advice is to buy a car based on your likely 80 percentile journey.
    For most people this is the daily commute which is typically less than 30 km and at low speed.
    Don't buy a vehicle sized or specified for the occasional trip to a bush walking location.
    6 cylinders might be nice, but 4 should be enough -- my current vehicle only has 4 cylinders and I'm driving 1500 km per week in it.
    Air con is IMO essential if you live in an environment where it rains when it's cold or hot. (Air con is super efficient at de-fogging the windscreen.)
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    se Melbourne
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    62
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    Manual Vs Auto. Manual may take more skill and perhaps a bit longer to learn but gives you a bigger choice of vehicles.
    Manual is likely to be cheaper and apart from the clutch can be very reliable. Auto needs a bit more care with the transmission fluid. Repairs can be expensive.
    In Victoria (Australia), if you do your test on an Auto, that will be a condition on your probationary licence. Once you have a full licence you can drive a manual - whether you have the skills or not!

    A vehicle over 10 years old or with (from memory) more than 140 000kms does not have a statutory warrantry if bought from a dealer. Even if there is a warrantry it may not cover very much.

    Insurance - have as a minimum third party, fire & theft. Allow for this in your budget. As an example I know of an instance where a car hit a fence (over 10 years ago). Quote for repair of fence not including painting was $ 39 K. Can you afford not to have insurance? There could have also been a cost for towing and storage not to mention damage to vehicle.
    Last edited by Handyjack; 30th December 2017 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Clarification

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia.
    Posts
    1,268

    Default

    I would agree with your idea of looking at people movers.

    First and foremost, every vehicle is only as good as the spare parts supply for that vehicle. Very oddball vehicles usually have issues with spare parts supply. Mostly this can be an issue with older models.

    In the automobile world, manufacturers generally are required to have parts supply for seven years from the last time they manufactured a model, from then on it can sometimes be best to stay with vehicle models that have sold in vast quantities. Wreckers and aftermarket spare parts suppliers generally cater for the models that sold in bigger numbers.

    You do not need a 6 cylinder vehicle, most these days, are 4 cylinders. That said, some models of vehicle did have a 6 cylinder engine because it may have been sourced from a factory with close ties and/or the engine manufacturer needed to keep the output up to keep unit costs down.

    One vehicle that may fit your criteria, could be the Kia Carnival people mover. The ones I am talking about run the 2.5L 6 cylinder engine and as far as I have seen, are all automatic. I have personally been in one quite a few times and I have some family members with them as well as a close friend who tows a caravan with one and does interesting things with his. He has removed the middle row of seats for general usage and removes the back row of seats for carrying stuff.

    From memory, they do not have a full size spare. My mate carries a full sized spare in the back as I seem to remember a full sized spare wheel will not fit into the space saver compartment.

    https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/kia...=0&setype=sort

    Most of the units I saw when I did a quick online check, were running well within your budget. Well the ones on the first page, that is.

    Some thoughts, Mick.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    54

    Default

    In QLD you cannot drive a manual on a automatic licence. I know of many people who have missed out on jobs because they could not drive a manual. I would make sure I got a manual licence and buy a manual vehicle. They have much less to go wrong with the transmission and will be lighter on fuel.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    I have taken 5 lessons in manual - maybe it would be best just to take another 10 lessons and be done with it.

    The Kia Carnival is a fairly common type I have seen so are: Honda Odyssey, Toyota Avensis, Toyota Tarago & Mazda MPV. I am however not sold on the people movers they are after all my second choice. I do not have kids, the cargo space is their advantage, but they have very low wheel clearance. Also the net says that they are more costly to run then a car.

    Wagons like a Subaru Outback, Subaru Forester, Peugeot 307, Mazda 6 look interesting. They give me space but with cost and handling like a car. However there is a fair amount of cross over between what people call a wagon/minivan/van.

    Would it be wise to avoid all vehicles that do not come with road worthy?

  12. #11
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    Apr 2011
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    se Melbourne
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    If the seller is not prepared to give you a current road worthy certificate ask your self why. Cost to replace four tyres might be $400-500. Brake repairs could be anything but lets say $750 +. Lenses for faded brake or indicator lamp could be $200 -300 or even more plus fitting. A replacement windscreem could cost you $1000. Other things that might be picked up on road worthy are fluid leaks, damaged mirrors, worn seatbelts and worn pedal rubbers. Are these expenses you have the finance for just to get the vehicle registered in your name?
    I was trying to sell a car for $1000 but my mechanic suggested that repairs to pass roadworthy could exceed that value. I got more selling the car for scrap, cancelling the insurance and registration.

    Sabaru vehicles are all wheel drive so would be suitable for driving on dirt roads, however they do cost more.

  13. #12
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    Mar 2006
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    It seems that many people do not want to offer road worthy on cheap cars and I have seen first hand people struggle to get a road worthy on cheap cars.

    Sellers often claim that they do not have time, or cannot be bothered, or its easy and not much will be needed to get road worthy. However I am told that they always find something wrong with a car to get road worthy because the mechanic has to make a profit and he has to cover his ass incase there is a problem.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
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    34
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    Roadworthy included or not, make sure you have it checked out by a mechanic you trust. I'm happy to recommend a guy in Clayton who's been looking after my cars for many years. He doesn't cut corners, but he won't rip you off.

    Common things for roadworthy to pick on in my experience are cloudy headlights, torn seat covers, tires, brakes and mufflers.

    $1000 for a windscreen is what you'll pay at a dealer, I had mine done by Instant Windscreens for about $300; it's generic, rather than OEM, but it still has to comply to Australian Standard.

  15. #14
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    My friends his wife brother is a mechanic we will see if he can do it for me.

    Regarding the mechanic, does it mean that I have to bring the mechanic to the car yard get him to inspect the car before I buy. I am sure the car yard will not yet take the car for a day so you can drive it half way across town so a mechanic can look at it.

    How much should I expect to pay for the mechanics inspection?

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    se Melbourne
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    I will give you my experiance's with mechanical checks.

    2007 Looking at a car a couple of years old. Had RACV do an on site inspection. Report told me nothing I did not already know.

    2014 Son was looking at a car. Car was located in Ringwood. The dealer drove it to our mechanic in Brighton who gave it a good report. We did not buy the vehicle as the dealer did not have any books and was not prepared to budge on price. Our mechanic did not bill us for checking the car. (Any wonder we trust them.)

    Other cars I have bought since, have been from new car dealers, but second hand vehicles and did not get mechanical check. No problem with vehicles to date (but they are under 10 years old and are yet to do 60 000 klms.

    On site inspections can be limited as it does not allow a full inspection underneath. Some traders may let you take the vehicle to the mechanic of your choice.

    Remember - Road Worthy only looks at safety, it does not consider the mechanical condition of the car.

    Re cost, ask the mechanic in advance. They should also be able to estimate, but only estimate what any repairs may cost.

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