Carrying loads on a Ute - should this be tied down

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Originally Posted by ian

could make for an interesting cross claim against Toyota.
"Toyota supplied me with a knowingly defective vehicle, to wit: the tie down points supplied are not rated to allow restraint of the allowable vehicle load."

do you want to lodge a complaint to the ACCC ?

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Its interesting that the Toyota supplied cargo barrier (between seats and cargo area) on my Hiace van is a third party accessory but has a detailed compliance plate stating an ANZ standard and that it will restrain the rated load provided the load is place hard up against the barrier ie doesn't have time/space to accelerate towards the barrier. However, I doubt it would restrain the 1200kg load rating @ 100kph.

The 6 tie down points on the floor of the HIACE look flimsy but they should easily be able to restrain 200kg each at up to moderate speeds but I doubt they would survive at higher speeds. To assist with this I've added 25x25x 3 mm SHS Al horizontal rails half way up, and others along the top of the sides of the cargo area in my van. The middle rail is held in place by 8mm nutserts about every 300 mm. This means I can safely hold things like furniture or sheet goods on edge up against the inside walls of the van.

I often carry machinery sometimes on a sack trolley in the back of my van as shown below.
I reckon this small combo machine is at most 150kg and is held down with 4 of the floor tie down points as well as forward direction forces being constrained by that yellow 2400 kg ratchet strap attached to teh wall rails.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/attac...8&d=1595244607

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Originally Posted by AJ.

This is commonly believed but wrong, ropes are legal, like most things its not simple though. Last time I had cause to check the load restraint guide it was over 150 pages long, then certain companies will impose their own regulations that differ again.

Cheers Andrew

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Andrew

Thanks for clarifying that. Ropes with a trucky's hitch are still a good way to go.

I should have added that the straps I use are primarily the 38mm size (there are still different Kg ratings within that size). The 25mm straps I use as secondary fastenings sometimes in conjunction with the larger straps. I have 50mm straps too, but the problem with those is that they are 9m long and for my little one tonner there is an awful lot of surplus strap to tuck away with most loads. I also, at times, use chains and dogs, but they have the ability to bend things.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by Arron

Yes, the whole tray is disappointingly flimsy. Plastic locking mechanisms and thin, flexy aluminium side walls.
The tie-off points on the sides are short lengths of steel tube but held on with pressed steel brackets which wouldn’t take much to bend. Even if the tie-off points were strong you can’t tighten tie-down straps much because the side walls are so flimsy. Nonetheless there is nothing different about it - same thing everyone else has.

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Is it a genuine Toyota tray or aftermarket? The genuine ones have an upright extrusion on the inside face of the sideboards with tie down holes in them and they are very strong to strap off and stops you strapping over the sideboards
The sideboards are not designed to take the load of the straps pulling down on them, I have a steel tray and sideboards and they are deformed from me tying big loads over them.
The main reason they have plastic/ nylon is because the meta ones they used to use rattle like crazy

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Originally Posted by riverbuilder

If you have anything in the rear of the tray, it must be covered by a tarp or a cargo net, that is the rule. But obviously some things need to be restrained with tiedowns or straps or whatever as well

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I'm not totally convinced that this is the case, so I'd be interested to see the legislation. As a farmer, living in a rural area, we (and everyone else) carry stuff in utes all the time. The general rule that the police in this area seem to apply is that loads "must be secured". If the load comprises a bunch of small items, then a tarp is the way to go (a cargo net is worthless if the items can escape through the "mesh"). However for large and/or heavy items there is nothing to be gained from a tarp or cargo net - the item has to be strapped down anyway so the tarp or net is just something else to flap about! The same applies to trucks - the load must be secured, but only covered if it is "loose items".

Ignoring the legalities for a moment, the biggest problems we see are people using elastic straps or nets (they just stretch and let the load move!), and people using cheap Bunnings straps rated to about 150kg to "tie down" 750kg loads. That load weighs 750kg in 1G of vertical gravity, in an accident the deceleration could result in that "750kg" load exerting a far higher force on those already massively underrated straps - we've seen it happen, and seen the results. Also, of course, most people simply ignore the load mass rules or utterly misinterpret them - very few utes will legally carry a tonne, yet utes with 1000L IBC's of water, 1T bags of fertiliser etc. are a common sight. The same applies to trailers, where many people believe that the GVM of the trailer is the load it can carry, or simply don't worry about it (750kg GVM unbraked box trailers with a full 1000L IBC of water "secured" by a couple of bungee cords is not uncommon!). /rant off

As an aside, I watched a family on the freeway with their paddleboard "tied down" on the roof rack with elastic straps. Yes, the inevitable happened and the paddleboard caught the wind and took off! Elastic straps should be illegal!

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Originally Posted by Warb

I'm not totally convinced that this is the case, so I'd be interested to see the legislation.

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I'm not sure what has made it into legislation, or even of the legislation is enforceable given the current state of government in Australia, but the following are extracts from the National Transport Commission's Load Restraint Guide

[while a loaded ute is technically not a "heavy vehicle" -- because the ute, even when legally loaded to the maximum, can be operated by a person with a Class 1 licence -- the requirements are:]

"(1) A load on a heavy vehicle must be restrained by a load restraint system that:
(a) prevents the load from moving in relation to the heavy vehicle (other than movement allowed under subsection(2)) in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (3); and
(b) at a minimum, is capable of withstanding the forces that would result in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (3).

(2) A load may move in relation to a heavy vehicle if:
(a) the vehicle’s stability and weight distribution are not adversely affected by the movement; and
(b) the load does not become dislodged from the vehicle.
Examples of load movement that may be permitted under (2)
1. load contained within the sides or enclosure of the heavy vehicle that is restrained from moving horizontally may be able to move vertically;
2. a load of very light objects, or a loose bulk load, that is contained within the sides or enclosure of the heavy vehicle may be able to move horizontally and vertically;
3. a bulk liquid load contained within the sides or enclosure of the heavy vehicle.

(3) For subsection (1), the circumstances are that the loaded vehicle is subjected to:
(a) any of the following, separately:
(i) 0.8 g deceleration in a forward direction;
(ii) 0.5 g deceleration in a rearward direction;
(iii)0.5 g acceleration in a lateral direction; and
(b) if friction or limited vertical displacement is relied on to comply with (a), 0.2 g acceleration in a vertical direction relative to the load."


[the forces in (3) are the ones that matter.
Arron should have arranged for the pallet of tiles to be placed immediately behind the tray's headboard. The idea being that the headboard will bend before the tiles had moved too far.
Then the load should have been restrained by straps that increased the friction between the pallet of tiles and the Workmate's tray so that if the vehicle had crashed, a forward force greater than 0.8 g would need to be exceeded. On a rough calculation, the straps would need to increase the friction between the wooden pallet and tray to roughly 5.5 kN.

The "flimsy" aluminium gates should be tied flat to the ute's tray with separate lighter duty tie-down straps.]

further on
"To comply with the law
If you’re involved in packing, loading, moving or unloading a vehicle, you are responsible for complying with load restraint laws."

"Rules on load restraint
• You are legally responsible for restraining your load so that:
- It does not come off your vehicle under normal driving conditions, including heavy braking and minor collisions. If it comes off, this is evidence you have breached the law.
- It does not negatively affect the stability of the vehicle, which can cause the vehicle to roll over or swerve uncontrollably, and cause an accident."


In respect to using rope and truckies' hitches, while "legal" the rope used needs to be certified by an engineer. And, importantly, the engineer's certification will cease to apply once the rope is run over, dragged along the ground, or otherwise damaged. It will be a "courageous" (as Sir Humphrey would say) engineer who provides an open ended certification.


If you are really keen, the whole load restraint guide (2018 version) runs to nearly 300 pages.

I've just been having a look myself, and I've yet to find anything in a law that states a load must be covered by a tarp or net. Secured, fastened, restrained etc. YES, but not covered. Those places where "covered" is specifically stated are, with one exception, sites that (surprise surprise) are also happy to sell you a suitable net, or are news sites reporting on tradies with utes full of paint cans etc. ("loose items"). The one exception is an RMS informational page that states fines are applicable to "uncovered loads", but doesn't actually link to the rules or regulation which the statement might be based on. Every other reference I can find discusses loads being secured or restrained in such a way as they cannot fall off - but not specifically "covered".

My suspicion is, as I said in my previous post, that secured/restrained is the requirement, and "covering" is only applicable to loads comprising many small items that cannot each be secured individually and are therefore "secured with a cover". For example, I would cover a ute load of firewood and chainsaws, but I wouldn't cover a 200L diesel tank (which would be securely strapped down!)....

Found this on Vicroads website.

Securing your Load: Securing your load : VicRoads

National Transport Commission - Load Restraint for Light Vehicle https://www.ntc.gov.au/sites/default...icles-2018.pdf

Covers understanding your load, choosing suitable vehicle, choosing a restraint system, loading a vehicle and vehicle dimensions for loading. Very good reading.

Having being involved in heavy transport for most of my licensed years and prior due to working on farms as a teenager, I will offer the following advice.

I always restrain my loads fully, expecting to having to brake very heavily or at worse roll over but still retain the load to the vehicle.

In Arron’s case and I have done this previously numerous times, place the load in the tray to suit weight distribution and then placed timbers between the headboard and sides to prevent the load shifting plus straps over the load.

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Originally Posted by Warb

However for large and/or heavy items there is nothing to be gained from a tarp or cargo net

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Well nothing to be gained in the way of safety, but a tarp tied securely over the top of a large, heavy otherwise unsecured item is probably less likely to invoke interest from the constabulary. I often see loads being driven around Melbourne who seem to think that's a gain.

It seems that police today would rather avoid a traffic stop if they can find an excuse to not do it anyway. I can't blame them when you hear io police getting assaulted when the do pull people over so they just rely on things like speed cameras to enforce a couple of road rules and just let the rest go. That's why the roads are full of bad drivers now. They only care about speed where the speed cameras are and the things that really cause the problems like tailgating and failure to give way aren't worth worrying about.

When I learned to drive, everyone drove as if there was a cop behind them looking for an opportunity to pull them over, and often there was. Now even when there IS a cop behind them they still drive like idiots because they know the cops would rather not risk a traffic stop if they can avoid it.

"Secure the load?"
"Nah, chuck a tarp over it, then the cops will leave us alone. She'll be right"

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Originally Posted by doug3030

It seems that police today would rather avoid a traffic stop if they can find an excuse to not do it anyway.

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{Off topic}

I have always had respect for the police, wherever in the world I have lived. My grandfather was quite high up in the police force in England (many years ago!), and I was brought up "believing" in the police. Sadly my views are now changing, the police dress like the military and seem only interested in easy speeding fines.

In the last few weeks we had a window broken in our local (rural) pharmacy, and were called out by the alarm company. The crime was reported immediately to the police by phone (just before 2am). Our town police station is "no longer manned 24x7", but there is a bigger station 25 minutes away and it was a pharmacy window involved so there were drugs on the premises.... yet no police arrived. The breakage was also reported in more detail on the online portal an hour or so later - which resulted in an automated email response saying "no further action will be taken and we will not be in contact again" (I kid u not!). Two days later we took video footage (timestamped the same as the alarm) showing a drunk/high/crazy guy, who was identified by one of the pharmacy staff, screaming abuse at the empty street and shaking+inspecting his very damaged hand (with which he had clearly punched the window, the footage shows the shadow of him doing it) to the local police station. They were still shut (in the middle of a work day) but the intercom put us through to the station in the next town. We explained the situation, they said they'd call us back...... no call was received. Finally, two days later, we took a print-out of the online report, with details of the calls we had made and a USB drive with the video footage, to the police station in the next town. The officer behind the desk took the report and USB drive, said "thanks" and walked away from the counter....... we heard no more.

Almost every time I drive to town I see one or more very flash "high speed" highway patrol cars (they've got BMW's now!) waiting to pull over speeding drivers. Hiding behind trees on clear, warm dry days waiting to catch people who are doing a few km over the limit in perfect conditions on straight (empty) roads is obviously far more important than catching people smashing pharmacy windows in rural towns with known drug problems (most rural Australian towns!). So my faith is wavering.

BTW, I've lived out here a while, and seen many people doing many stupid things on the road. I can sit in a tractor going around a paddock and watch any number of crazy overtaking attempts or other acts of stupidity on the road, and I've seen many cars wrapped around trees, down ditches or through fences and in to paddocks (several times my own paddocks!). I've pulled people out of upside down cars right outside my own property, and listened to many "I was avoiding a 'roo" excuses, and I in no way condone speeding or stupid driving.... BUT... very few of those accidents happen on the long, straight sections of road that they police hide at the end of, nor on the clear dry days the police seem to prefer.

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Originally Posted by Beardy

Is it a genuine Toyota tray or aftermarket? The genuine ones have an upright extrusion on the inside face of the sideboards with tie down holes in them and they are very strong to strap off and stops you strapping over the sideboards
The sideboards are not designed to take the load of the straps pulling down on them, I have a steel tray and sideboards and they are deformed from me tying big loads over them.
The main reason they have plastic/ nylon is because the meta ones they used to use rattle like crazy

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I’m not sure whether it’s a genuine Toyota tray or not. I bought it new from Toyota dealer with the tray fitted - but I would have thought Toyota would only want to put their name on something a lot better then this. There is an image attached showing the area you are talking about (very dirty because I’ve just taken a load of wet gyprock to the tip). I guess I should purchase tie down straps with hooks which will fit in the holes illustrated. Also image of tie down bars which I usually use although they force the straps to cross the overly-bendy sides of the tray so really are useless for heavy loads.

The cover I have is a cheap flimsy one from Bunnings - it’s good for stopping small items flying out during a tip run - which is very important to me - but nothing else. I have an industrial walking foot sewing machine so when I get a break from building our house I will design and make my own tarp, because I’ve shopped around and the ones I have seen do not impress.

Also, my tray appears to be oversize (2550 internally not 2420ish) - so the off the shelf versions do not fit and leave a gap of about 100mm. I wanted an oversize tray because the main thing I imagined carrying were sheet goods. I’m not really sure if it is oversized or the salesman was just telling me what I wanted to hear, perhaps someone with a standard hilux tray could advise by giving us the internal measurement straight along the tray.

Also I should set the record straight that I love this car and these criticisms don’t really change my opinion. I’m basically just very inexperienced with utes so need to bring my expectations in line with reality, and come up with a proper pattern of usage.
Cheers
Arron

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Originally Posted by Arron

I’m not sure whether it’s a genuine Toyota tray or not. I bought it new from Toyota dealer with the tray fitted - but I would have thought Toyota would only want to put their name on something a lot better then this. The image shows the area you are talking about (very dirty because I’ve just taken a load of wet gyprock to the tip). I guess I should purchase tie down straps with hooks which will fit in the holes illustrated.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/attac...8&d=1604183730

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Arron, yes, you really should purchase some strong tie down straps with hooks that fit those holes in the tray.
At a guess you should be using 35 mm wide straps. But 35 mm may not be strong enough next time you are carrying a pallet load of tiles.

And you should plan on carrying enough ratchet straps so that your next "heavy load" can be properly tied down to each pair of holes.
It doesn't really matter if you use too many straps, but if you use too few and your load shifts, then by definition it wasn't adequately restrained.

The external tie-off points are not really designed for attaching ratchet straps (unless you use blocking between the side gates and the load) -- they are really there to give you somewhere to tie off the tarp you use to cover a loose load, or boxes of stuff, etc.

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Originally Posted by Arron

The cover I have is a cheap flimsy one from Bunnings - it’s good for stopping small items flying out during a tip run - which is very important to me - but nothing else.

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stopping loose stuff flying off and hopefully keeping a cardboard box dry, is all that the Bunnings "tarp" is designed to do.

The load guides talk about using "blocking" between the sides (proper name is "gates") of the ute's tray and any load.
Properly installed blocking will stop the ute's side gates bending inwards when the load is properly tied down.

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Originally Posted by Arron

Also, my tray appears to be oversize (2550 internally not 2420ish) - so the off the shelf versions do not fit and leave a gap of about 100mm. I wanted an oversize tray because the main thing I imagined carrying were sheet goods.

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Even with a quality tarp, you will still need to use blocking if loads of sheet goods less than the height of the side gates are to be "properly restrained". If the load extends above the side gates, as well as blocking, the load will need to be tied down as well.

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Originally Posted by Arron

Also I should set the record straight that I love this car and these criticisms don’t really change my opinion. I’m basically just very inexperienced with utes

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:2tsup:

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Originally Posted by Arron

I’m not sure whether it’s a genuine Toyota tray or not. I bought it new from Toyota dealer with the tray fitted - but I would have thought Toyota would only want to put their name on something a lot better then this. There is an image attached showing the area you are talking about (very dirty because I’ve just taken a load of wet gyprock to the tip). I guess I should purchase tie down straps with hooks which will fit in the holes illustrated. Also image of tie down bars which I usually use although they force the straps to cross the overly-bendy sides of the tray so really are useless for heavy loads.

The cover I have is a cheap flimsy one from Bunnings - it’s good for stopping small items flying out during a tip run - which is very important to me - but nothing else. I have an industrial walking foot sewing machine so when I get a break from building our house I will design and make my own tarp, because I’ve shopped around and the ones I have seen do not impress.

Also, my tray appears to be oversize (2550 internally not 2420ish) - so the off the shelf versions do not fit and leave a gap of about 100mm. I wanted an oversize tray because the main thing I imagined carrying were sheet goods. I’m not really sure if it is oversized or the salesman was just telling me what I wanted to hear, perhaps someone with a standard hilux tray could advise by giving us the internal measurement straight along the tray.

Also I should set the record straight that I love this car and these criticisms don’t really change my opinion. I’m basically just very inexperienced with utes so need to bring my expectations in line with reality, and come up with a proper pattern of usage.
Cheers
Arron

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Arron yes that is a genuine Toyota alloy tray which are made in Qld by a manufacturer that also supplies most of the other ute vehicle manufacturers in Australia.
In your photo you can see an upstand in the extrusion on the inside of your sideboards. Use the holes they have in it to anchor heavy loads , that is what they are designed for.
You will find those outside tie rails to be a lot more capable than they look too.
For a standard off the shelf alloy tray they are fine but of course there are lots of better and much more expensive options out there which your dealer could of supplied for you if needed.
Your dealer is right that is an oversized tray. Standard on a single cab is 2420, 2100 on an extra cab and 1800 on a dual cab.

Thanks for the clarification on sizes.

I don't know specifically about Toyota but many single cab trays are just under a full sheet size in length at around 2350mm. A little annoying, but not a real problem providing you don't mind letting down the tailgate and strapping so the load cannot slide out the back. On my vehicle I rarely have the sides and tailgate in place as they get in the way, as others have mentioned, when strapping a load.

When I do have the sides attached and have loose objects I use a cargo net similar to this:

Attachment 483924

They have attachment points for straps and indeed come with straps (but not enough). They are made in a variety of sizes from small, box trailer size (pictured) to small truck size. They are not cheap. I was told that the test for loose objects being restrained is the ability to reach in through the net and withdraw the object. However, this is anecdotal as is the incidence of tradies being pulled up for having thongs loose in the tray (the type for your feet).

Clearly, if you cannot reach in and extract a machine from the tray it does not need to be covered with a tarp or net. It does need to be restrained and blocked, if necessary, to prevent movement.

Regards
Paul