Thread: Personal EV journey.

At a recent woodies meet that I attended one member posed the Q - "how many have or know someone with an EV?" Only 4 of 15 or so in attendance responded, none owned a pure EV. I know of a few people with hybrids, but not personally.

The most common gripes about take up was price, then charging options & time to recharge, range, and of course their impending impact to an already stressed generation, transmission grid & distribution network. In FNQ there are not many "public" charging stations and the few that exist have the compatibility issues of charging cables, availability when you "need" them etc.

It seems we are still a ways off some decent compatibility standards ala phone chargers, USB cables etc.

Personally, I believe EV's solve the vehicle emissions issues, however the whole of life cycle environmental impacts (mining rare earths etc, manufacturing through to recycling) are being "spun" imnsho. EV fires and recycling of EV's in general are major issues and present not insurmountable but certainly difficult challenges for firefighting, dangerous goods transportation of damaged battery packs or vehicles, and of course insurance for liability, transport, home and vehicle.

As a commute vehicle they have a reasonable practical benefit, however once outside metro or large urban areas the practicalities soon diminish and very rapidly imo. A simple example is the "fringe" growth areas around metro and large regional centres with the delays in essential infrastructure upgrades, and even in established suburbs.

Australia presents some very challenging environmental conditions for EV's. We are yet to see how they will perform long term for vehicle range, and battery life in say repeated trips across the Nullabor Plain, back of Bourke etc against a stiff westerly in 40+C heat, & long-range towing applications etc. Even my Stihl battery chainsaw has overheat protection - will or do EV's have a "limp mode" & what happens when it decides to "limp" with a B Tripple up your b*m?

I've no doubts that we may see the rapid technical innovations in EV's and battery technology that we have seen in technology generally in the past 50 plus years, but will investment in generation, transmission grid & distribution network, charging facilities etc satisfy demand and ultimately offer the range, practicalities, and convenience of "fossil fuels."

It would be interesting to see a rigorous scientific / technical study on say the area and capacity of solar panels / wind generation / battery storage / supplemental power generation infrastructure for a remote area EV charging station to support the AADT (annual average daily traffic) and peak daily traffic volumes on major inland highways.

Charging stations for EV's will never match the efficiency of the "fossil fuel" infrastructure in peak or even expected daily traffic volumes.

I'm pretty confident that I will not have to eat humble pie on that last statement in my lifetime - well not until we see an extensive battery swap out network i.e. "Swap n Go" style at the big green shed.

I pretty much agree with what Mobyturns has written that EVs still have some ways to go for many situations.

Meanwhile I picked the Tesla EV up yesterday at 11am and its been a bit of a whirlwind experience since then.
Every family member, mate, and wanna be mates wants to have a look and a drive.
Here are some first impressions

Immediate pros
- very comfortable and after getting used to operating with just the one pedal (accelerator, when you press down to go, and it activates regenerative breaking when you ease back) it's very easy, even relaxing, to drive. I think I touched the brake pedal less than a handful of times yesterday,
- super fast acceleration
- plenty of room for the dogs
- I love the clean uncluttered lines of the interior. There's only two steering columns stalk controls and a couple of mini track balls on the steering wheel and everything else is operated/controlled via the 15" touch screen. There's no gear or auto shift stick or handbrake lever on the centre console - F, R, N and P are on the RHS stalk. Hand brake is a button on end of same stalk. There are no "instruments" again everything is on the screen. Takes some getting used to but I'm loving it already.
- great navigation and big 15" Screen view of maps and other stuff.
- No physical keys. It's paired to your phone and provided you have your phone with you and turned on the car unlocks itself when you walk up to it and locks itself when you walk away. Two credit card size keys are provided in case of emergency ie you don't have your phone with you, or it's flat, or . . . . . A bit discombobulating but I guess I will get used to it.

Some negatives I've noticed
- Limited vision in all 3 mirrors especially compare to 4WD and my Hiace miirrors. There's 8 cameras which do a great job of sensing and warning of what is all around and the relevant side view camera auto switches on when you turn on an indicator but I like to see what's doing on before indicating.
- The same cameras will warn you when you get too close to stuff or stuff gets too close to you but they do not protect the very bottom edges of the low profile tyres and rims which then makes them susceptible to damage on kerbs etc I scratched one of my brothers cars rims driving up to the deal on Monday and then did the same thing to my car while driving it out of the dealers carpark!!!

Ride is a bit "firmer" than my Brothers Model 3s, but seats are very comfortable. Handling is amazing, probably because the heavy battery creates a super low centre of gravity and the 275 mm wide tyres generate a decent grip on the road.

Battery/Charging. I drove it around much of the afternoon and used up ~18% of the battery charge but that included quite a few "full on acceleration demos"!. I have my 7.2kW wall charger at home but it's not installed yet so was only able to charge the batter ON from a 10A wall pug using the supplied mobile charger. This charger comes with two adapters. One for 10A and one for 15A sockets. Tesla internal derates both to 8A and 12A respectively. My external power socket on the veranda is 15A but I will need to extract a 15A extension lead from the shed. Anyway the 8A connection recharged the 18% lost during the day in about 8 hours, the 15A connection should do it in about 6 hours and the 7.2kW in ~2 hours. A 3P connection if you have one would take about 1.5 hours.

Still lots to learn, especially about all the controls. Some people don't like the speedometer reading only on the screen but this does not bother me in the slightest. I haven't really trusted car speedos anyway, so have used sat navs displays located over to the side of the usual instrument cluster on all the cars I/we have owned since ~2010.

This thing is really going to get me out and about which is a good thing for me at this time especially as I will be able to do it with a slightly cleaner conscious and not worrying about the fuel costs.

Apart from the 21" wheels and 275mm wide tyres its fairly plain looking but that is OK with me - I dont really want to stand out too much.
Day1.jpg

Great write up Bob.
I know I can look up images on the Tesla site but they look rather AI refined.

Are there any production flaws you have noticed? Some have reported the gaps between doors, bonnet/trunk are not well aligned on other models

post edit - I see a pic has been added now
Those rims do stick out, but boy, it sure does looks slick

Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork

Great write up Bob.
I know I can look up images on the Tesla site but they look rather AI refined.

Are there any production flaws you have noticed? Some have reported the gaps between doors, bonnet/trunk are not well aligned on other models

post edit - I see a pic has been added now
Those rims do stick out, but boy, it sure does looks slick

I'd also heard about the alignment problems but there appear to be no panel alignment problems from what we could see. The car body panels of the Teslas two of my brothers purchased earlier this are really well aligned. When my other brother and I went for a test drive we took the car into a playground carpark and parked it in the sun and had a close look al over it and everything was also well aligned. All of these cars have come out of the Shanghai factory which has really lifted its game in terms of quality control and they are some say better than the US made vehicles. Without sounding too rude about it the US made cars are most likely made by migrant workers anyway. When I took delivery we both had a close look all over the vehicle to look for any defects etc. All clean as.

The wheels and tyres are indeed amazing. This morning tI was driving around showing it off to some mates in constant drizzle. Absolutely no problem gripping the road. I think the weight and weight distribution really makes a difference.

Bob,
What’s with the Number plate,
You hardly look like

One, Heavy,Vehicle,

Your not that big[emoji849].

I’m eagerly awaiting a full report, but not too long please.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Bob,
What’s with the Number plate,

Not sure I know what you are getting at?

You hardly look like
One, Heavy,Vehicle,

????

Your not that big[emoji849].
I’m eagerly awaiting a full report, but not too long please.
Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by BobL

Not sure I know what you are getting at?



????

Your number plate

Is 1HV ….

One Heavy vehicle

But maybe just a poor joke on my behalf [emoji849][emoji849]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Your number plate

Is 1HV ….

One Heavy vehicle

But maybe just a poor joke on my behalf [emoji849][emoji849]

LOL, yes it is heavy - nearly 2 tons!
Sticks to the road like dog dung to a shoe.

Hi Bob

Some thoughts on your very recent BEV acquisition

from reading other forums the range (as stated on the new vehicle windscreen placard) for a Tesla BEV is beyond wildly optimistic.
From that reading what I've gathered is the range as stated (590km on the Tesla I saw today) is based on ideal conditions -- not quite driving 590 km down-hill, but certainly not using the ventilation fan, any air conditioning, any heating (especially seat heating), and minimising the use of the exterior cameras -- i.e. don't indicate when changing lanes as that triggers the side cameras.
Whilst the Tesla I saw today might have stated a range of 590 km, a more realistic estimate of range might well be in the low 400 kms.


Towing -- FWIIW, my advice is don't.
Towing anything with your Tesla will kill its range. Perhaps keep your Hiace for any towing you might wish to do.
Your new Tesla is optimised (the aero shape, tyre size, tyre profile, rim shape) to minimise drag when operated as a single unit vehicle. Hooking a trailer behind the Tesla, will interrupt the Tesla's designed low-drag air flow causing significantly increased drag and hence a significantly reduced range.


Charging
Does your local council provide high capacity BEV charging?
Mosman Council does.
Perhaps, find a dog walking area easily accessible to the charging location and walk the dogs while the Tesla charges?

Originally Posted by BobL

... and not worrying about the fuel costs.

but you just paid more for the car than I would spend on Diesel in 30 or 40 years

Originally Posted by doug3030

but you just paid more for the car than I would spend on Diesel in 30 or 40 years

Sure, that's why I made it clear it's a personal journey.
If there were no electric cars I would probably be looking at something like a BMW ICE
Im not that interested in saving money, I've had "the talk" with my son and he says he not interested in any "inheritance" and you can't take it with you when you go.

Originally Posted by ian

from reading other forums the range (as stated on the new vehicle windscreen placard) for a Tesla BEV is beyond wildly optimistic.
From that reading what I've gathered is the range as stated (590km on the Tesla I saw today) is based on ideal conditions -- not quite driving 590 km down-hill, but certainly not using the ventilation fan, any air conditioning, any heating (especially seat heating), and minimising the use of the exterior cameras -- i.e. don't indicate when changing lanes as that triggers the side cameras.
Whilst the Tesla I saw today might have stated a range of 590 km, a more realistic estimate of range might well be in the low 400 kms.

Hummmmm, 590 versus say 425 is a difference of of -40%.
My brothers testing shows about a -10% difference on the highway, and about even around town, sometimes he even gets more!
His testing is consistent with real world tests shown below done at 70mph! (see What's The Real World Highway Range Of Today's Electric Cars? We Test To Find Out for more results)
Screenshot 2023-06-25 at 4.38.10 am.png
BTW, An important KPI is the efficiency in km/kWh which is where the Teslas shine.

The range killer for batteries is cold weather, but the newer Tesla models no longer use resistive heating but use a heat pump that extract just about every bit of heat from the 15 different heat sources in these vehicles which is often just wasted. This includes; battery, drive and fan motors, inverters, and even the computer's CPU. This is one reason why the Teslas are so efficient. The recovery in battery range in cold weather using a heat pump is about 10%. New vehicles like mine are also using double glazing which also helps reduce road noise..

Towing -- FWIIW, my advice is don't.
Towing anything with your Tesla will kill its range. Perhaps keep your Hiace for any towing you might wish to do.
Your new Tesla is optimised (the aero shape, tyre size, tyre profile, rim shape) to minimise drag when operated as a single unit vehicle. Hooking a trailer behind the Tesla, will interrupt the Tesla's designed low-drag air flow causing significantly increased drag and hence a significantly reduced range.

Depends what you mean by towing. I'm not going to be towing a boat or a van or anything over extended distances. I'm talking about shifting a piece of furniture or picking up a couple of slabs from the tree loppers yard or taking rubbish to the local waste transfer centre. One of my Tesla owning brothers has been towing his 6x4 trailer back and forth between Fremantle and his holiday house in Jarradale (~60km) about once a month with no problems at all.

Charging: Does your local council provide high capacity BEV charging? Mosman Council does.
Perhaps, find a dog walking area easily accessible to the charging location and walk the dogs while the Tesla charges?

There are free sites around but I might as well just walk the dogs direct from my place and charge from home solar.

Here is another interesting chart from the same link above
Grey bar is the70mph test result, Yellow bar is EPA claim and blue is combined hwy/city.
Here you can see that a number of cars exceed the claimed ranges
Screenshot 2023-06-25 at 4.58.42 am.jpg

Photo take early last week of 349 Teslas arriving in Fremantle.
My car was somewhere in amongst that lot.
Another ship load are coming in next week.
Screenshot 2023-06-25 at 6.25.04 am.jpg

Bob

I suspected you would have done a little homework on this subject in addition to family members already owning similar vehicles. I am pleased that you have stated your reasons for selecting an EV and for in particular emphasising that you were in the fortunate position to be able to afford a vehicle of this type.

There appears to be several barriers to the uptake of EVs in Oz.

Traditionally we are years behind the rest of the world in technology philosophy (not the invention mind you, just the take up: Eg. solar electricity).
We like our V8 gas guzzlers.
Australia has large distances, but only for some of us. It is not an issue for those living on the coastal fringes (geographic, not social )
Many of the comments attributed negatively to EVs are similarly applicable to ICE vehicles.
The choice of EVs is only now becoming more enticing as the Australian market was possibly too small and too far away.

The towing comment is interesting. I remember talking to one of my BILs, who at the time was towing a largish van with a Toyota Landcruiser. I asked him about fuel consumption. He indicated it was quite a bit worse than 20lL/100!! Nobody gets anything for nothing. Even if somebody was towing a caravan, and I appreciate it is not your intention, most Nomads only travel about 200Km per day. That would be doable on a vehicle such as yours. Not all EVs would be up to that, but neither would all ICEs. You don't see many 1.5L sedans towing even small caravans.

Sometimes I feel that much of the animosity towards EVs come from the owners of large engined cars disgruntled that the prodigious acceleration of EVs can make almost any muscle car look wimpish. Of course, that normally prompts the comment that the battery won't last any distance at all. A Bugatti Veyron at full tilt will empty its tank in about six minutes.

Nothing comes for nothing.

In day to day terms the biggest issue is to do with charging. It seems likely most people will be limited to 7KW/Hr for home charging, which correlates to a 32amp outlet. To achieve much more than this, three phase would be required. However, at that rate you could recharge, say, up to 70KWs overnight. I think in the future, charging through the day will become cheaper, but that only suits a vehicle parked at home through the day such as ina retired person's situation or a person working at home. I think we will need to modify our patterns of travelling to suit EV charging, but over time with the implementation of more public charging sites this should be come les of an issue.

Perhaps the main concern I have with EVs is none of the above, but relates to the second hand market, which may not even have eventuated as yet with EVs being so new to us. This is particularly pertinent to my situation as I haven't bought a new vehicle since 1980. We currently have two vehicles both purchased second hand: A car and a ute (one tonner). Both are 2005 models with the car having 80,000Kms on the clock and the Ute near to 300,000kms. The more expensive one cost A$14,800. I anticipate we will make one more car change before we stop driving: It should, of course, be an EV. However, will a second hand vehicle even be an option? I would not dream of buying a second hand battery operated drill. Will second hand EVs have a similar lack of value? Something of a rhetorical question for now as I certainly don't know the answer to that. If they do have a low resale value, it will make the depreciation cost enormous.

Thank you for this thread. The first hand experience will be very informative.

Regards
Paul

Paul, I too would be sceptical about a secondhand BEV, however I've slightly changed my mind after talking to two owners who purchased ex Japanese Nissan Leaf automobiles.

Both mentioned the state of health of the batteries, something I had never considered being a possibility; but it made sense once I heard about it. Fortunately for me, these are about 20 minutes away from our place. That said, we are not actively looking for a BEV, but one never knows.

If you click on one of the cars, then a detailed description etc. becomes available.

ELECTRIC VEHICLES, NISSAN LEAF, FULL ELECTRIC, ZERO EMISSION

Mick.