Thread: Personal EV journey.

Originally Posted by BobL

In this article the author reviews OTA for EV manufacturers and rates them for their use of OTA.
Tesla Smashes Competition In Over-The-Air Updates

Attachment 528257

I'm not sure of the relevance of this rating showing Tesla's A rating for OTA updates, especially as it relates to Tesla self-driving "feature".


Evidence -- sourced from NASA testing -- of greatly increased reaction times, especially when a person is experiencing a "startled reaction", strongly suggests that "supervised self-driving" is not a thing that should ever be encouraged.
Which begs the question why is OTA (over the air) upgrading of the self-driving software rated so highly?


which in turn suggests that the whole grading table is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by ian

I'm not sure of the relevance of this rating showing Tesla's A rating for OTA updates, especially as it relates to Tesla self-driving "feature". .

"Autonomous"systems are broader than just self driving. Lots of vehicles (and not just EVs) have autonomous systems, ABS and lane assist are a couple of examples. For BEVs it's also managing the battery, motors, inverters and heating/cooling systems etc. The value of OTA updates is poorly understood and underestimated by the general public. There's no question that with so much smarts aboard the car can get smarter the more it is driven and because it sends data back to the Tesla cloud and is processed and then appropriate OTA updates are provided that use make use of that data the car will get even smarter. A vehicle's software/learning and updatable capability thus becomes increasing important, at least as important but increasingly more important than the mechanical/electrical/electronic systems of the vehicle. No manufacturer is doing this anywhere near to the same extent as Tesla. A good indicator of why this is of major benefit is that all other manufacturers scrambling to do the same thing.

RE: Self driving
Tesla have just received permission to trial a new advance driver assistance package (I dont know how truly self driving it is) for vehicles in Australia. To test the new software they have contracted a bunch of Australian Tesla drivers - applications for test drivers were opened a few weeks back and were filled in just 24 hours. You had to be able to drive 8? hours a day at set times so it was suited at Taxi/Uber drivers.

By the time I can no longer drive I'm looking forward for my car to be told take me to Bunnings and I can just sit inside it and use my mobile phone.

Something that I meant to post earlier in this thread is the high rate of recalls for Tesla vehicles with Model Y's having one of the higher rates of recall of all current electric vehicle. I knew this well before my decision to buy but a number of the recalls need to be put into perspective. Some are quickly fixed by software updates but they go into the recall category because the vendor is obliged to inform owners to perform the update (park vehicle near an accessible Wifi point) or take it to a dealer to perform the update. (owners may not know how to update their vehicle or not have accessible Wifi).

Earlier recalls associated with poorly fitting body panels appear to have been fixed in recent 2023 models. Certainly the 50 or so vehicles we looked at when I picked up my vehicle looks pretty darned good.

Some of the recalls are disturbing but usually only affect a small number of vehicles. The latest one is that the pyrotechnic fuse that locks out the battery on crashing may not function correctly on some vehicles. This is a known batch problem and if I dont get a letter by the 25 July I should be Ok.

One recall that came out before I picked up my vehicle was that the main steering wheel nut may not have been tightened!

Yesterday I had the special Tesla tow bar fitted .
It's hidden behind the rear underside of the bumper like this.
TowHitch1.jpg
To access it plastic pop out panel is removed using a flat blade screwdriver - about the only reason to carry a screw driver on a Tesla.
When not in use the plastic panel is popped back in so the car retains its aerodynamic shape.

The cost was somewhat excrucisting ($1970!) but it does include a sensor and software to take into account when you have a trailer attached, otherwise the rear facing cameras will generate continuous messages about someone being too close behind you. The fitting process took about 2.5 hours, The Tesla staff were very helpful and friendly and answered a bunch of other questions I had. They wouldn't let me into the workshop for a good look, but from what I could see it was super clean - more like an electronics workshop than an ICE workshop.

I have two hitches but as is neither can reach the nearest lug hole without contacting the bumper.
I'm going to turn the ball around on the shorter one - If not I will drill another hole
TowHitch2.jpg

I am also concerned about the chain rubbing on the outside rim of the plastic bumper opening so will have to rig up some sort of protective sleeve over the chain.

Once I get my trailer back from my son I will do some testing.

When I read your first post I thought, Oh no, the anti EV brigade will be incensed. Typical replies for this subject: all EVscatch fire and burn up, EV fires cannot be extinguished, Teslas are rubbish, you can't drive across the Nularbor in an EV, and worst of all - made in China, we all know everything made in China is rubbish, right?

The reality is:
52 in 100,000 EVs catch fire. 1500 in 100,000 ICE vehicles catch fire.
True to a certain extent, EVS are difficult to extinguish, but they can be extinguished by cooling the fire rather than trying to smother the flames.
Teslas do break down, but no more than Hydais, Fords, Hens, Mazdas, et al.
Drive across the Nularbor? really, EVs are not made for that, they are made for urban transport.
Made in China is rubbish, really. I think people making this statement should check on the back of their mobile, TV, stereo, fridge, washing machine, dryer, toaster, kettle, sandwich maker, et al!

No doubt the anti EV brigade will dispute these statements, particularly the rate of fires among EVs and ICE vehices. Google it, it is no secret. Then come all the caveats, what caused the fire, where was the vehicle , how old was the vehicle and so on. It doesn't really matter, fire is fire, the car is now a smouldering heap.

I do not own one, and probably never will because they do not suit my lifestyle. There is a place for EVs, and there is also a place for ICE vehicles.

for $2000, one would think it would come with a hitch...

Originally Posted by woodPixel

for $2000, one would think it would come with a hitch...

Originally Posted by BobL

Yesterday I had the special Tesla tow bar fitted .
It's hidden behind the rear underside of the bumper like this.
TowHitch1.jpg
To access it plastic pop out panel is removed using a flat blade screwdriver - about the only reason to carry a screw driver on a Tesla.
When not in use the plastic panel is popped back in so the car retains its aerodynamic shape.

The cost was somewhat excrucisting ($1970!) but it does include a sensor and software to take into account when you have a trailer attached, otherwise the rear facing cameras will generate continuous messages about someone being too close behind you. The fitting process took about 2.5 hours, The Tesla staff were very helpful and friendly and answered a bunch of other questions I had.
TowHitch2.jpg

Why are you surprised WP ???

2-1/2 hrs for Tesla's techs to fit the hitch -- and "install" the software that disconnects the rear facing cameras.
At $200 per hour -- assuming two techs -- that's $500 before you add the cost of the software upgrade.

and you (WP) want Tesla to "throw-in" a draw bar and tow ball as well ??



sounds like you (WP) have not experienced the pricing policies of "premium" brands like Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, et al

It took significantly less than 2.5 hours to fit the tow bar.
From where I was sitting in the service reception I could see my parked vehicle.
I arrived at 9:30am for a 9:45 appointment. The vehicle sat in the parking bay for about and hour before someone drove it into the service building and at that point my Tesla App said "Amanda" (that's what I have called my vehicle) was "under service". I then went to a cafe across the street and when I came back about an hour later the vehicle was back in the parking lot, but my App said it was undergoing a software upgrade and still under service. Within a minute of software upgrade sign finishing, and the "under service" sign on my app disappearing, the service dude appeared with my vehicle's card key and he showed me how to pay via the Tesla App on my mobile.

RE: and "install" the software that disconnects the rear facing cameras.
The rear facing camera is not disconnected and remains fully active.
I believe that inserting the trailer's electrical plug triggers the rear facing camera software to ignore what is behind the vehicle and prevent driver reports about something being too close behind the vehicle.

Yesterday I did my road trip to Wyalkatchem.
426 km all up for 96% use of battery which is consistent with the 176 W/km reported by the cars computers.
Watts/km is very sensitive to speed - by driving a bit more conservatively this would improve the range.
Rain and fog on the way up for about half the way, rain for about a 1/3rd of the way back.
Road was wet most of the way but in really good condition - I only saw one obvious small pothole easily covered by the big tyres..

Vehicle sticks to the road like it's on rails, recommended curve speeds can comfortably be taken at 20+km over recommendation, even on wet road - I wouldn't do this on even a lightly flooded road. After a while it got boring so I took it easy.
Down side is big tyres do make more rod noise than I expected - its not uncomfortable but because the vehicle is so quiet at low speeds its a tad annoying that it's not as quiet at 110.
One thing I noticed is the almost zero buffeting of the vehicle when approached by large fast moving vehicle travelling in opposite direction on narrow roads. Normally I grip the steering wheel a bit tighter when approached by big vehicles like this but this is not needed in this vehicle. I guess this is because of the weight and very low air resistance of the vehicle. Even the series of triple trailer prime movers I encountered didn't seem to do much.

The one thing that bugs me is that the wipers automatically go on "auto" when in autopilot (even cruise control) is engaged and are at sometimes too slow or too fast for my liking and I'd like to be able to set the speed to what I like.
All in all a very enjoyable trip even thought the conditions were not really suited to comfortable driving.

I did the trip without a spare tyre but admit I was pretty nervous at first but then with roads in such good condition this did help ease my mind a bit. I could borrow a spare wheel from the Tesla club for these road trips but the pick up and drop off aspect would be a PITA for shorter tripe, and the 21" wheels take up a lot of space and are very heavy, so I've decided to buy my own space-saver spare wheel. Of course it has to deal with the large brake callipers of the Model Y performance Tesla, so of course it has to be special. The one I've ordered comes in a kit with a reasonable (2T) jack, jack puck (so's not to damage the vehicle) and telescopic/extendable wheel brace and 21mm socket, and pair of gloves and safety triangle, all in a decent ripstop nylon bag. This wheel also fits in the under floor storage section of the rear compartment which is distinct positive. Speed is limited to 80 kph but that's a lot better than being stuck in the middle of nowhere. Price is of course commensurate with the price of the tow hitch only $895 plus $27 postage. Cheap right? I'm now resigned not to expect anything less

Bob

Thanks for these updates. I do like the "warts and all" approach, because nothing is perfect.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by woodPixel

for $2000, one would think it would come with a hitch...

Originally Posted by ian

Why are you surprised WP ???

2-1/2 hrs for Tesla's techs to fit the hitch -- and "install" the software that disconnects the rear facing cameras.
At $200 per hour -- assuming two techs -- that's $500 before you add the cost of the software upgrade.

and you (WP) want Tesla to "throw-in" a draw bar and tow ball as well ??

sounds like you (WP) have not experienced the pricing policies of "premium" brands like Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, et al

Yeah, Ian. I would have expected them to add another $500 to the price and throw in a $30 tow hitch with a "Tesla" decal on it.

My take is Tesla would have deliberately left tow balls out of the equation as a towed vehicle of almost any description would hinder the range, because of the conscious attention to aerodynamics. If a customer retrofits a towing hitch, Tesla can say "What did you expect? You just messed up the airflow: Not our fault." Until the useable range and charging times are out of contention, I expect this will continue as these seem to be two of the foremost objections to EVs.

Regards
Paul

Just adding a hitch adds weight but does not disturb the airflow when it's not being used because the tow bar sits behind a pop out plastic panel in the bumper like this.
To add the hitch the panel is removed and is about the only reason to carry a flat blade screw driver or any screw drive for that matter, on this vehicle.
Interesting little ridge right at the bottom of the bumper.
Hktchpanel.jpg

Bob

I wasn't clear. The hitch and tow ball matters little. The coupling of a large brick on wheels definitely does. Once a tow ball is attached, it encourages the use of a trailer. We had a guy at work a while back, who maintained his double axle trailer to transport his dogs around made no difference to the fuel consumption of his vehicle (I think it was a Pajero). Amongst the rest of us it has been a good source of amusement for many years.

Regards
Paul

I read an interesting article on the supply and use of chips in motor vehicles and the approaches taken by various manufacturers of EVs and ICEs which now all use an increasing numbers of chips. Modern vehicles use hundreds and even use thousands of chips with the cost of electronics going from from being just 18% of a car’s cost in 2000, to being 40% in 2020 , and projected to be 45% by 2030. Remember this is nit just EVs.

The current world wide shortage of vehicles is largely due mainly to a lack of the motor vehicle chip supply.
When COVID hit, most vehicle manufacturers anticipated a major downturn in demand for motor vehicles and so cancelled many future orders of materials especially chips.
What they did not bank on was that the demand for chips would actually increase during and after COVID as consumers and businesses bought more electronics so chip manufacturers switched to making those chips further depressing the availability of motor vehicle chip supplies.

Except for chips used in EV self driving systems the chip designs used in most vehicles are mature and relatively simple which means that unfortunately not many chip manufacturers can or like making them as the returns are poor, they'd much rather be making the latest logic or video processing chip for which they can charge a premium.

Currently there are enough motor vehicle chips to make about 70 million vehicles a year but world wide demand is approaching 100 million vehicles a year. Big customers like north America and Europe always get first dibs at the pack so as usual Australia gets shoved further to the back of the pack.

So how does Tesla manage to continue to supply record numbers of vehicles?

Designing chips is a significant part of any chip making process and as Tesla designs their own autopilot/self driving chips they are not waiting for others to do this for them. All other manufacturers rely on chip design companies (usually separate from chip manufacturing ) to design their chips, which slows things down

It's not just about number of chips but how they are used that matters. Tesla also uses more generic chips than most other vehicle manufactures which tend to go for vehicle/task/component specific chips. Generic chips are usually made by a number of companies whereas specific chips are usually only made by one manufacturer. Tesla's get their "smarts" from the way fewer simple chips interact with each other and a central CPU using neural networking. This also means simple chips can be swapped for other chips and any differences are catered for in the software. This approach has has for example enabled the Tesla model S to drop its chip use by 75%!

All Tesla vehicles (and their chips and chip systems) are highly modelled in software so that they can be tested and tweaked to a substantial degree without actually driving the vehicle. This also enables any changes in the chips being used to be very rapidly tested and implemented even on the assembly line. So a 2023 Tesla model Y that comes out today can use some different chips than one that comes out tomorrow. It sounds like a nightmare to keep abreast of but that is what clever software can do. This is also why Tesla releases so many updates because they are constantly finding ways of making their vehicles better.

It's rapidly becoming a very different world out there with motor vehicles becoming as much a piece of electronics and software as they are mechanical.

Did some basic box trailer towing tests today taking a trailer loads of my sons rubbish to his local waste transfer station

8x5 single axle box trailer containing about 150 kg of assorted rubbish pilled about 900mm high on trailer covered in ratchet strapped down shade cloth.
So fair but of wind resistance.

By way of comparison, my long term average for the vehicle is 165 W/km - this includes some heavy accelerations testing sessions by my brothers and the long drive to/fro Wyalkatchem.
Typical city driving is 150W/km
Very steady driving can get me 140 W/km


Driving to waste transfer station with loaded trainer - about 10km of winding suburban streets, mainly 50kph with some 60 and short bit of 70 - 202 W/km
First thing to note is that I hardly noticed the weight of such a light load on the back of the vehicle until my foot came off the accelerator and then noticed it slowed down noticeably quicker.
Driving back to son's place with empty trailer 188 W/km

So comparing with the 150 W/km, empty trailer under similar conditions adds about 25% more consumption, full, lightly loaded tailer was about 35% more.
I guess this shows how aerodynamic the Tesla is and how un-aerodynamic a box trailer is.
So not brilliant but it doesn't put me off towing this sort of stuff around town or even into the immediate countryside if there are enough recharging stations available.
Heavier weights and larger cross sectional area loads supposedly can increase the W/km to as much as double the usual consumption.