Thread: Personal EV journey.

Brakes use?? what brake use?? - I drove 48 km through city traffic and used the brakes precisely twice.

Tyre use is interesting.
Some of the hype around the need for using super special tyres for EVs is just tyre companies trying to sell more than you need.
Like any vehicle tyre use is more about use than vehicle weight although like any vehicle the tyre should be rated for the weight of the vehicle..
A vehicle like a Camry weighs about 1500kg which is only 30% less than a Tesla Model Y but if a proper weight rated tyres are used on both vehicles and both are driven sensibly its unlikely that tyres would experience 30% greater wear on a Model Y.
The sorts of figures I am hearing from EV owners is about 10% greater wear.
And if you want to go crazy with the cheese wizz a heavier vehicle should experience less wheel spin, and modern suspension systems are marvellous at holding the car onto the road.

My Tesla connects daily to the house WIFI and uploads its driving data and downloads its software update more or less automatically. One annoyance is it wont charge while its communicating with home base.

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

The "12V gremlins" seem to have affected almost all EV brands at some stage, not just Nissan Leaf. The 12V runs all car electronics and systems, and is supposed to be topped up from the main drive battery periodically. All sorts software glitches and other conditions the makers hadn't thought of (like leaving doors open for a long time with car switched off) have contributed to 12V battery failures. The first batch of BYD Atto 3s delivered (fortunately not mine) had a huge number of 12V failures (some people even went through more than one 12V battery) until rectified by an OTA software fix. Some people went as far as installing bluetooth battery monitors to keep an eye on what was happening with 12V battery maintenance, or bought those compact 12V "starter battery" gadgets just in case. Even a small, cheap one of these is good insurance, as it's only running the electronics rather than cranking an ICE so doesn't need high current capability. I know Tesla had this problem in the early days too, as did Hyundai. When the 12V is dead you often can't get in without a mechanical key, and when you do the car won't even turn on. Until recently I believe a lot of roadside service callouts to EVs were due to 12V batery issues rather than running out of juice in the main drive battery.

The Tesla Manual describes how to "Jump start" an EV vehicle with a dead or faulty 12V Battery using another 12V battery so no mechanical key is needed. Thi means the car control systems will work and the The newer low V batteries are now 16V Li ion, but the vehicle can still be jump started with a standard 12V battery.

Originally Posted by BobL

Tyre use is interesting.
Some of the hype around the need for using super special tyres for EVs is just tyre companies trying to sell more than you need.
Like any vehicle tyre use is more about use than vehicle weight although like any vehicle the tyre should be rated for the weight of the vehicle..
A vehicle like a Camry weighs about 1500kg which is only 30% less than a Tesla Model Y but if a proper weight rated tyres are used on both vehicles and both are driven sensibly its unlikely that tyres would experience 30% greater wear on a Model Y.
The sorts of figures I am hearing from EV owners is about 10% greater wear.

Bob,
I agree that rim/tyre sizing is very much a matter of tyre company hype.

However, when comparing your Tesla with the Camry, comparing the tyre wear using vehicle mass alone is more than a bit misleading.

Your Tesla is fitted with 21" diameter rims fitted with 275/35 rubber (what I'd describe as rubber bands because, with a 96mm high side wall, that is what they look like), while
the Camry comes with 17" diameter rims fitted with 215/55 rubber. Not quite chalk and cheese, but close to.

The contact area -- where the tyre sits on the road -- will be different, but perhaps more importantly, the rubber compound will also be different leading to different rates of wear between the two vehicles, regardless of weight.


Based on my experience -- I typically travel 75 to 80 thousand km per annum mostly on freeway -- tyres wear most when you go around tight corners at speed or need to brake heavily.
If you can avoid these two situations, you should be fine tyre wear wise -- though I'm still concerned about the ride comfort of your /35 profile tyres when you drive out to Wyalkatchem

Originally Posted by BobL

The Tesla Manual describes how to "Jump start" an EV vehicle with a dead or faulty 12V Battery using another 12V battery so no mechanical key is needed.

I'll admit to being confused.

If you locked the Tesla when you left it, does the Tesla auto-unlock when the auxiliary battery goes flat? Seems odd because if it does the vehicle's interior is then available to miscreants.

If a flat auxiliary battery doesn't lead to the vehicle unlocking, how does an owner access the vehicle to "jump start" the electronics without a physical key?

Not using the brakes has caused some major issues due to corrosion etc on the rotors. I saw one Volvo where the pad was literally ripped out of the calliper because the brakes had not been used often enough. As for problems I can assure anyone who thinks that is the case that they are wrong. How about a car that had to have a new electric harness put in and the entire interior had to be removed to do the job. That took over twenty hours and everyone crossed their fingers hoping the harness fixed the problem. Hyundais are suffering random total steering loss and Teslas have been losing road wheels in the US. OTA updates are being affected in BYD's by owners side loading apps but even without that some OTA's create unseen problems. Volvo trucks have been using OTA updates and actively monitoring trucks for problems and tracking servicing requirements for some years so cars are a long way behind.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Not using the brakes has caused some major issues due to corrosion etc on the rotors. I saw one Volvo where the pad was literally ripped out of the calliper because the brakes had not been used often enough.

It's not that the brake rotors on a EV are never used. Some days I do use them more than others and the car itself will also use the rotors to slow down if it needs to. Teslas have been around for more than a decade and there does not appear to be any issues with lack of rotor use not being used. Some EV drivers will also still need to replace their pads depending on how they drive.

As for problems I can assure anyone who thinks that is the case that they are wrong. How about a car that had to have a new electric harness put in and the entire interior had to be removed to do the job. That took over twenty hours and everyone crossed their fingers hoping the harness fixed the problem.

When my HiAce diesel van reached 13 years old it had an intermittent electrical faults (various lights would stay on and the motor would not start and when it did start it would not turn off). The problem were traced to a leaking windscreen letting water into the electrical connectors and ignition switch behind the dash. This is also a known problem with old Landcruisers parked outside downhill so all the rain runs off the room . The auto electrician I took my vehicle to managed to get some water repellent into the problem connectors which fixed the problem but he said I must get the windscreen leaks fixed or the problem would reoccur and cost a bomb. On Landcruisers where this happens and not attended to the connectors corrode so much that most of the wiring harness has to be replaced. The cost for this repair runs from $10 to $15k. I had the windscreen removed and fixed the leaks around the windscreen and then the same windscreen put back on. Total cost was $200. 2 years later it's still OK. Van is still parked outside, BUT I park it facing uphill

Hyundais are suffering random total steering loss and Teslas have been losing road wheels in the US. OTA updates are being affected in BYD's by owners side loading apps but even without that some OTA's create unseen problems. Volvo trucks have been using OTA updates and actively monitoring trucks for problems and tracking servicing requirements for some years so cars are a long way behind.

Some cars are indeed way behind, but Tesla has been OTA-ing for more than a decade and have by far the greatest number of logged vehicle data than any vehicle manufacturer. The last count was they had something like 10X more than anyone else.

In this article the author reviews OTA for EV manufacturers and rates them for their use of OTA.
Tesla Smashes Competition In Over-The-Air Updates

Screenshot 2023-07-07 at 6.07.14 am.jpg

Most people who purchase vehicles understandably look at the mechanical/comfort/performance/safety aspects of vehicles but don't realize that when they buy an EV the vehicle, the software system represents a substantial component/contributor to these aspects. Buying into a system that is able to update and fix problems, and even improve these aspects over the life of the vehicle is worth paying for.

I'm not saying that these things are not trouble free - there are always some hiccups. One Tesla updates I heard about completely locked users out of the car's audio system until the next update.

Originally Posted by ian

I'll admit to being confused.

If you locked the Tesla when you left it, does the Tesla auto-unlock when the auxiliary battery goes flat? Seems odd because if it does the vehicle's interior is then available to miscreants.

If a flat auxiliary battery doesn't lead to the vehicle unlocking, how does an owner access the vehicle to "jump start" the electronics without a physical key?

Correct - vehicles remain s lock - to gin access to the flat 12V batter the locked "Frunk" (bonnet or hood) has to be opened.
Here's how

To gain access to the car's 12V battery you need entry to the car. Each model is slightly different and the procedure is shown in your car's manual. The car's 12V battery is accessible in the frunk of the car and so to gain access you need to open the frunk. If course with a flat battery you can't just open the frunk as normal and you have to follow the emergency frunk opening procedure. Most Teslas have a pair of electrical cables behind the front towing eye cover. Removing the cover and see if there are two wires that can be pulled forward. Connecting another 12v battery to these will energise the frunk lock.

A few gotchas.
1) There is no paper manual - besides, even if there was one, it's probably in the locked car. The digital manual is accessible inside the car but that is locked too. Im not sure if the manual is accessible by phone but that won't help if you are out of range. I therefore pays to know how to do this for your vehicle before it happens. Mine has the two wires behind the toying eye cover.
2) If you cannot open the Frunk you also cannot get at the towing eye bolt that has to be attached through the towing eye cover! This also means you also cannot tow the vehicle because it MUST be put into towing mode before put the vehicle is towed.
3) Those cables only work if the car's 12V battery is flat. If thieves try to open the frunk with a 12V battery and the cars 12V battery has charge this will also trigger the car alarm and thieves will be fully captured on camera . There is a risk that comes when the 12V battery is flat, whereby that thieves with their own 12V could open the frunk, but they still cannot open the car with the drivers phone or credit card keys. If they have wither of these keys the car will automatically be tracked.
4) From 2022, many Teslas come with a Lithium Ion Low Voltage battery pack. This has some benefits but can also be more difficult to deal with if it runs flat. This battery typically has a voltage above 12V and as a result a normal car battery charger may not work. If you get a flat battery with these cars then roadside assistance may be the only option.

Rates of car thievery - this old (2016?) data but it is still interesting.
Vehicle size/type frequency (100 = average)
BMW 3-series 4-door Midsize luxury car 4
Tesla Model S 4WD Large luxury car 11
Tesla Model X 4WD Large luxury SUV 12
Chev Equinox 4WD Small SUV 15
Buick Encore 4WD Small luxury SUV 15
Subaru Legacy Midsize 4-door car 17
GMC Acadia Midsize SUV 19
Subaru Forester Small SUV 20
GMC Acadia 4WD Midsize SUV 20
VW New Beetle Small 2-door car 21
BMW 3 s4-door 4WD Midsize luxury car 21
Subaru Outback Midsize station wagon 22
BMW X5 Midsize luxury SUV 22
Subaru Crosstrek Small station wagon 25
Chevrolet Traverse Midsize SUV 26
Subaru Crosstrek Small station wagon 26
Lexus RX 450h 4WD Midsize luxury SUV 28
Honda Odyssey Minivan 28
Mazda MX-5 Miata Mini sports car 30
Cadillac XT5 Midsize luxury SUV 30

Teslas have a 9X lower rate of car theft than average but more importantly have the highest rate of recovery (98%) in the US - not quite as good in Europe where hacker type thieves prey on all vehicles with increasing levels of sophisticated gear and access to more/better markets for stolen vehicles are available.

Originally Posted by BobL

When my HiAce diesel van reached 13 years old it had an intermittent electrical faults

That has nothing to do with electric vehicles, I am relating some issues BEV's are experiencing. As for OTA's we all know the history and any Tesla owner will gladly trot out all the positive stuff about the brand. I drive multiple brands on occasion and they are all good and for better or worse I see the service and repair side of owners and car problems every day through my son and he has many stories of what is going on in three different brands.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

That has nothing to do with electric vehicles,

I raised it more as an issue that involve electric harnesses. There are all sorts of ways electric harnesses can cause problems in any vehicle let alone EVs.

I am relating some issues BEV's are experiencing. As for OTA's we all know the history and any Tesla owner will gladly trot out all the positive stuff about the brand. I drive multiple brands on occasion and they are all good and for better or worse I see the service and repair side of owners and car problems every day through my son and he has many stories of what is going on in three different brands.

Sure, it's only natural that "everyone" is going to trot out their positives and I can trot out just as many experts as anyone. When my brother and I went to look at Volvo EVs all the salesman could do was bad mouth other brands, but at the Tesla show room representative (you don't purchase a car from them) they didn't mention any other brands.

Following the advice of my 3 Tesla owning brothers I joined the Tesla Owners club of WA (TOCWA) as it only cost $20 PA and they have a library of spare wheels and cables etc that can be borrowed at no charge.

Every Wednesday night TOCWA also host as "Ask us anything" forum on Zoom and receive reports from various experts (like the people installing public chargers etc). The sessions go for between 90 and 150 minutes and yes there is a lot of chit chat and hype but many of the questions and answers are generally useful - mainly about Teslas and the WA EV network of course. Some of the organisers have owned Teslas and other EVs for a decade or more and their experience is invaluable especially in relation to the advanced autopilots etc. After each session they also post a video of the session to YouTube. they are up to episode 147 which is close to 3 years worth of vids.

Here is the link to their website
Ask Us Anything – Tesla Owners Club Western Australia

If you want to go straight to the youtube here is the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMGDktt3Egc&feature=youtu.be

There is also a Tesla Owners Club of Australia, TOCa that does similar things although membership is $50 PA.
Tesla Owners Club of Australia

If other makes have similar clubs It would be worth posting links in this thread.

Originally Posted by BobL

Brakes use?? what brake use?? - I drove 48 km through city traffic and used the brakes precisely twice.

Tyre use is interesting.
Some of the hype around the need for using super special tyres for EVs is just tyre companies trying to sell more than you need.
Like any vehicle tyre use is more about use than vehicle weight although like any vehicle the tyre should be rated for the weight of the vehicle..
A vehicle like a Camry weighs about 1500kg which is only 30% less than a Tesla Model Y but if a proper weight rated tyres are used on both vehicles and both are driven sensibly its unlikely that tyres would experience 30% greater wear on a Model Y.
The sorts of figures I am hearing from EV owners is about 10% greater wear.
And if you want to go crazy with the cheese wizz a heavier vehicle should experience less wheel spin, and modern suspension systems are marvellous at holding the car onto the road.

I don't know, they have a few pages with their methodology in their study.
BTW they didn't test with a Tesla, they used a Kona because they are in Korea and over there they can find the exact same vehicle in EV, petrol and Diesel versions.

Personally I wouldn't consider either, the perfect shape and size vehicle for my lifestyle and driving style is the Golf or Huyndai i30 (they're pretty much identical for all practical purposes). I avoid aerodynamic-looking cars because it tends to minimise visibility, boot space and head room (for the same exterior dimensions). I prefer small and boxy. if bigger is needed then it's definitely an estate for me. And there's really no good EV options for those type of cars out there, the Tesla is good but it's just not the shape I prefer.

And I would never consider an SUV, I have no idea why someone who only drives on covered city roads would own something like that. But that's all they seem to want to make these days... all the best deals and R&D goes into SUVs it seems, I don't want an SUV dammit

Originally Posted by BobL

I went to look at Volvo EVs all the salesman could do was bad mouth other brands, but at the Tesla show room representative (you don't purchase a car from them) they didn't mention any other brands.

As does the cult that has formed within Tesla owners groups. They always criticise every other brand without exception and will never see the brand of Tesla or the vehicles they produce having any faults or problems.

Originally Posted by Spyro

I don't know, they have a few pages with their methodology in their study.
BTW they didn't test with a Tesla, they used a Kona because they are in Korea and over there they can find the exact same vehicle in EV, petrol and Diesel versions.

Personally I wouldn't consider either, the perfect shape and size vehicle for my lifestyle and driving style is the Golf or Huyndai i30 (they're pretty much identical for all practical purposes). I avoid aerodynamic-looking cars because it tends to minimise visibility, boot space and head room (for the same exterior dimensions). I prefer small and boxy. if bigger is needed then it's definitely an estate for me. And there's really no good EV options for those type of cars out there, the Tesla is good but it's just not the shape I prefer.

A Boxy design is going cost any EV significant battery losses.
Although the Y is called an SUV it's much more of large hatchback than an SUV.
I reckon the SUV label is just hype as it is on most SUVs.

Of course people will buy what suits them but here are some comparisons and my preferences..
Dimensional differences;
Y: H=1624mm, W=1978mm, L=4750mm
i30: H= 1415mmm W=1825mm L=4675 mm

I love the extra width for someone like me with wide shoulder so's I don't feel like I'm sitting top of the front seat passenger although It does make it a bit harder to get into tight parking spaces.
Also like the extra height which makes it feel significantly less claustrophobic than most mid size cars.

Ground Clearance is 135 for the i30, versus 167 mm for the Y.
The Tesla Model 3 is 140 mm and that is way too low for me.
Even my fit and athletic BIL reckons the Y height above ground makes getting in and out of the car much easier.

Even though the Y has a sloped rear there is heaps of room for my dogs.
It doesn't look like it but the curve of the rear window in the hatch door (both across and along) easily accommodates the dogs standing up in the back.
TeslaDogs.jpg

Side visibility on the Y is no different than most other cars, but I agree about the very limited rear mirror visibility but it does have a fantastic rear and side cameras that can be left on while driving ie not just in reverse. After a while you learn how to meld all three images to get unprecedented vision around the back and sides of the vehicle.

RearCamera1.jpg
RearCamera2.jpg

Originally Posted by BobL

A few gotchas.
1) There is no paper manual - besides, even if there was one, it's probably in the locked car. The digital manual is accessible inside the car but that is locked too. Im not sure if the manual is accessible by phone but that won't help if you are out of range. I therefore pays to know how to do this for your vehicle before it happens. Mine has the two wires behind the toying eye cover.

I didn't look very hard but I did find this Model Y Owner's Manual (tesla.com)