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Thread: Rewinding cable power window
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9th December 2013, 01:42 PM #1
Rewinding cable power window
Power window on my magna is stuffed, opened it up and found that the regulator is no good. I bought another regulator but when you change it the cable becomes unwound, I cannot get the cable rewound, it comes close but falls short by about 6 mm. Is there some trick to doing this?
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9th December 2013 01:42 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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9th December 2013, 06:29 PM #2
Hi Tiger, I have a full workshop manual for the TS-TR, which is earlier than your model. It shows that unit having interchangable unitised manual and power regulators, i.e there is a one piece power unit and a one piece manual unit using common mounting points at the frame and window. Does your unit have a system comprising seperate components including a replaceable cable, or are you trying to assemble a unit by building one up out of parts from more than 1 unit? A pic of what you have to deal with might be helpful for comparison with my manual.
A friend had a 70's Gemini wagon and had problems with the manual regulator collapsing with it. Being helpful and stupid, I volunteered to look at it about six years ago after it had dropped the window again. This unit used a manual regulator comprising a cable drum and brake unit, metres of 2mm cable, and a number of fixed idler pulleys in the door frame. As received cables had jumped off pulleys and guides in frame so could not refer to original lacing for clues.
After repairing and freeing up the actual regulator mechanism and releasing and untangling the cable, I spent three days trying to get the lacing correct, trying every possible combination. Always came out about 1/2in short or 11/2 inches long. That model wagon/van had wide doors and a different regulator setup to the sedan and coupe. Googled the setup but could not get a definative answer for the particular door.
In the end pulled the inner skins of the opposite door, traced the lacing on that and tried to lace the troublesome door as a mirror image, same issue, 1/2 in short. Finally discovered that one of two pulleys fixed to the bottom of the door frame was in fact screwed to the frame and adjustable. It still took about 2 hours to assemble, tension and adjust window and channels etc but eventually worked as good as new. He gave the 30+ yo car to his grandson the next week and bought a used Hyundai because his wife wanted to upgrade.
Come back with pics of what you have and I will try and compare with my manual.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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9th December 2013, 10:36 PM #3
Hi Mal, here's a photo of what I have, as soon as you change the motor the cable comes undone. There's a spool and 2 pulleys to get around. Have checked a few websites on other regulators, most are all tough to rewind, only people who have had success have the strength of Samson.magna regulator.JPG
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10th December 2013, 10:04 PM #4
Hi Tiger, Sorry I didn't get back last night, doing nighttime security at present, sleeping half the day, and have an older long term friend in hospital as well, so trying to give him a couple of hours each day. Computer time currently limited to 21.00 to 22.30 each day.
The unit in your pic is conceptually similar but physically different to the ones illustrated in the manual. The differences mostly are in the mounting points etc. These things are assembled by robots with the intention that they will be completely replaced once they fail, rather than repaired. Personally I think I would just rock up to pick a part in Kilsyth and get a complete unit to install and do a swap over. From memory of the last time I was getting Magna parts for next door neighbour, any/all electric regs were around $50 with warranty or $40 without, then it becomes a straightforward changeover job. No idea what a new replacement unit would cost but I wouldn't expect much change from $300. At that sort of price difference you could probably afford to use a couple of used ones over the life of the car, or install a used to give you or me time to sort the one you have. Sorry I cannot be of more direct assistance at present, don't mind spending some time in the new year when my time is my own again.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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10th December 2013, 11:03 PM #5
No worries at all Mal, the part that i bought was from the wreckers $41 but it had a broken plastic connector though not sure that would have affected my ability to rewind the cable. The part sells for $365 from mitsubishi, repco can get them for $260 so i'll get one from there. Interesting they use robots because it would take huge strength to get the cable over all the wheels. Thanks for all your help on this one.
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11th December 2013, 07:28 PM #6
As I said previously, you should be able to get a complete unit (used) with guarrantee for abt $50 at Pick a Part. The guarrantee allows you to take it back and swap within 3months if not working properly, but you should be able to test it in the carpark with car battery and a couple of medium duty cables. Up to you if you wnt to save or go new non genuine.
One of the advantages of robots etc is that they can lay out and partly assemble the unit, then tension the cable and tack weld the last couple of components into place to maintain tension. A mere human starts with the disadvantage that the thing has been pretensioned and finish assembled, we have to work around things and try to cope, instead of putting them where we want them. We also normally only have two arms.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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11th December 2013, 09:49 PM #7
Did get it with a guarantee and just as well as there were cracks on it so better to be safe than sorry. There was only one at the wreckers that I could choose from and that was the one I got. Just wondering how could I check that it worked with cables as the lead from the unit had 5 pins in it, in other words how to connect the regulator to the battery?
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12th December 2013, 09:31 PM #8
Hi Tiger, I got to your reply from last night about half an hour ago, and have gone through my TR manual. It specifically states that the motors in the TR/TS are 2 terminal motors that can be tested by connection to a battery in each combination of polarity. I thought this would be the case as some of the illustrations I found last night showed a two terminal connector.
Not sure why the later unit has a 5 terminal connector unless there is some form of external limit switch setup or similar. Can you tell me the model/year and I will try and find wiring diags online for you.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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12th December 2013, 10:52 PM #9
Mal it's a TH model, year 2000.
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15th December 2013, 08:27 PM #10
Hi Tiger, Sorry again for the delays, but finished security at midday so sanity will hopefully return within 48 hrs.
I have looked online for downloadable manuals or wiring diagrams and have not come up with anything offering instant gratification. I did find a couple of CD/DVD copies of the factory service manual for $10-15 on ebay. These are obviously at least a week away but should be the way to go, around 3000 pages covering the complete car. That's what I have for the TS-TR, bought it to sort my neighbours sons TR about 10 years ago, and kept three cars going and out of the wreckers in that time. (Actually two came from the wreckers and went back on the road for 8 years between them till they finally died permanently)
Re the 5 pin connector, is it fully populated? Just asking because I have seen some forum posts discussing windows for your model where they say to test the system by bypassing switches and wiring and connecting directly into the motor connector, and the reversing the connections to test operation both directions.
Re replacing the cable set, I also noticed that someone on ebay is offering a replacement cable and drum set without instructions. This suggests that it is possible to swap cables, motors etc.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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16th December 2013, 10:41 AM #11
Hi again Mal, no worries about the delays. I have the Haynes manual which is pretty good albiet not as good as the factory service manual that you've mentioned. Installed the Repco version which looks far superior to what was originally in the car, better motor and bracket. Not sure about the 5 pin connector, will seek out a wiring diagram to see what pin does what. Regarding replacing the cable only, I've seen the same sets on ebay but so far I haven't seen any evidence of being able to change just the cable on youtube or anything else. Once the cable comes undone after you try and change the motor you won't get it back in.
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13th August 2014, 08:02 PM #12Still Learning
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I did a few Suzuki units a few years back. The worst problem I remember is the damage to the hub the thin cable runs across. The mis-running of the cable cuts new groves in the hub which the cable wants to follow.
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