Thread: Starter motor failing?

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

The biggest problem might be getting a replacement part.

Should be able to buy a new starter very easy, the Isuzu motor that is in you car now is still been manufactured today.

Originally Posted by DJ’s Timber

Should be able to buy a new starter very easy, the Isuzu motor that is in you car now is still been manufactured today.

Sounds good DJ. I reckon it's a pretty good engine actually.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Sounds good DJ. I reckon it's a pretty good engine actually.

Yes they’re literally bulletproof, I was actually in a one the other week as a passenger and he bought it new and has clocked up somewhere around 600 or 800 thousand kms and it runs as good as.

The same motor is also in literally every small to medium Isuzu trucks as well, just fitted with different fuel pumps and injectors to suit the vehicle

Re starter.
It could simply be poor (old) wiring or poor connection/connections, or even poor earth.
The old holdens (70's) and old (80's-2012) commodores suffered from old wiring and connections.
And if the car has a key fob/ remote that could be giving trouble also, so lot's of things to look at for an auto sparky
which can become expensive if they start throwing parts at it.

FWIW with starters, they have brushes and these brushes can get jammed in the housing and may not be completely touching the armiture
but after one or more tries they contact.
People would tap the solenoid on the starter to supposedly excite the solenoid when in fact what was happening was the tapping would jar the brushes into place.
I recently removed/replaced the starter in an old commodore 2007, and stripped down the old one which I found was full of carbon from the brushes
which in turn was stopping the brushes from connecting to the armiture.

The simple things to start with would be remove/clean battery connections with emery cloth/sand paper or battery cleaning tool and at the same time remove/clean/refit any connections you can see/get to easy while the battery is disconnected.

Another area to look at is remove/clean/replace relays but as you have mentioned, if you are not up to doing the work yourself then off to the auto lec.

I forgot to post a follow up to this, so my apologies. It was a week after the symptoms first showed up before I tried to start it again. This time it was just "click" and that was it, rinse and repeat a couple of times. The battery was still charged (headlights were bright), so it was apparently time to get the car towed to the Auto-elec, about 1½km away.

Tow truck guy quoted $88 which I thought was extraordinarily reasonable, given he was coming down from Mt Victoria, about 20 minutes away. (I was expecting maybe $200). Anyway, when he got he here he came to the conclusion that he couldn't load the car because it meant he would be blocking the road, which can't be done. He asked me if I had tried to start it and jump-start it. "Yep to both". So he reached in, turned the keys, "click", rinse and repeat 6-8 times, and bugger me if it didn't start! So I offered him some cash for his trouble, and he only wanted $20. What a guy!

I very quickly jumped in and drove it to the AE and walked home. Coupla days later the starter was replaced with a new one.

However, next morning it was back to "click" which petered out. This was just a flat battery due to no use for the best part of a month, plus some very cold weather that batteries despise. A quick jump start from t'other vehicle, drove around for 45 minutes, and it was back to starting with gusto. Most of my trips these days are very short, so that's very hard on batteries.


My thanks to all who participated.

Hey Brett, have you given any thought to grabbing a decent jump-pack? They're cheap enough and are ideal for "the battery is iffy 'cos it hasn't been driven much" situations.

I don't leave the driveway without one.

Not a bad idea Skew, although there is always t'other car to jump from (much of the time). I'll investigate...

Brett,
I can’t confirm if this is true, but when I was in the auto game,we were always advised too jump start a car then let it run(We weren’t able too just take them out for a blast for 30 minutes or so) with the headlights an aircon on apparently this charges the Battery faster by making the alternator work harder, Hopefully someone here with more auto electrical experience,can tell us if this actually works.
I was young dump an did as I was told mostly [emoji849].

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Brett,
I can’t confirm if this is true, but when I was in the auto game,we were always advised too jump start a car then let it run(We weren’t able too just take them out for a blast for 30 minutes or so) with the headlights an aircon on apparently this charges the Battery faster by making the alternator work harder, Hopefully someone here with more auto electrical experience,can tell us if this actually works.
I was young dump an did as I was told mostly [emoji849].

Cheers Matt.

I would certainly go along with the idea of connecting both batteries THEN leave for a few minutes for the batteries to somewhat equalise, (actually suggested by RACQ) but not sure about turning lights on to make alternator work harder.
Any car I owned that had an amp/battery meter, the meter always went showed in the negative when lights were on until the engine revs were increased to turn the alternator faster
but like you, I am not expert

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I can’t confirm if this is true, but when I was in the auto game,we were always advised too jump start a car then let it run(We weren’t able too just take them out for a blast for 30 minutes or so) with the headlights an aircon on apparently this charges the Battery faster by making the alternator work harder,

Dunno 'bout this.

I'm no mechanic (nor auto-elec) but I grew up in an area where everyone drove old beaters and were their own mechanics. They had to be, 'cos the nearest "qualified" mechanic was a long way away. So, if you couldn't fix it yourself it was added to the back paddock collection. (This still affects my choices in cars today. No onboard 'putas for this li'l black duck! )

From what I know, this tip wouldn't be true for modern cars with alternators and electronic voltage regs. Let's call it most cars since the '60s/70s.

Neither alternators or generators "work harder" with increased current draw; their output is controlled by engine rpm. It's the voltage regulator that decides how much current goes where.

(Think of the alternator/genny as a dam full of water and the VReg as the taps/valves controlling output.)

It may have worked on some older cars with generators and the even older style of mechanical voltage regulators... after all, they were more primitive, as it were, and a bit easier to fool.

But far, far simpler to simply wedge the throttle and let the car fast idle in the drive for a while. A short drive is better mainly 'cos you're watching the car while it's driving.

I suspect this tip is either persistent, outdated knowledge or a left-handed screwdriver.

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Neither alternators or generators "work harder" with increased current draw; their output is controlled by engine rpm. It's the voltage regulator that decides how much current goes where.

(Think of the alternator/genny as a dam full of water and the VReg as the taps/valves controlling output.)

It may have worked on some older cars with generators and the even older style of mechanical voltage regulators... after all, they were more primitive, as it were, and a bit easier to fool.

But far, far simpler to simply wedge the throttle and let the car fast idle in the drive for a while. A short drive is better mainly 'cos you're watching the car while it's driving.

I suspect this tip is either persistent, outdated knowledge or a left-handed screwdriver.

Skew

I think it may come down to the fundamental difference between a generator and an alternator. For a generator, typically found on much older vehicles, it requires higher engine revs to charge so that may be where this concept of loading up the generator comes from. In reality the motor just has to be raced a little and there is no requirement for load such as lights or the heater etc.. Conversely, and in comparison an alternator starts charging at relatively low revs, is much more efficient and consequently has completely replaced generators on modern vehicles (probably since the 1970s, but I am unsure of my fact there).

Regards
Paul

PS: I like the concept of a left-handed screwdriver. I am going to keep my eyes peeled for one.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

PS: I like the concept of a left-handed screwdriver. I am going to keep my eyes peeled for one.

Nah, stick with your right-handed hammer collection.