Thread: AVR, UPS, line conditioner or surge protector?

How old is the UPS? I thought the general rule with them is that they're guaranteed to die at some point in their lives

If you don't have the battery, then it's not a UPS, just a filter and won't stop the computer switching off when the power drops too low.

Have a read here: https://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/pl...18/#post619937

Our small business has 5 computers, all of them running a battery back up or uninterrupted power supply (UPS).

My first UPS system for one computer cost over $1,000 ex Sales Tax, the retail price was a shade under $1.450.00. this was last century

The current UPS that we are switching over to are the Eton 3S 700VA 420W power supply Eaton 3S 3S700AU 700VA/ 420W Standby Powerboard UPS

These are probably the best ones we have used for stand alone computers. One of these will keep your computer and monitor running for about 5 minutes, maybe up to 10 minutes, but certainly enough time to enable you to switch off the computer safely.

They do not have enough power to run a printer, meaning that if you have the computer, monitor and printer on the battery back up, the system will collapse and you will have a myriad of problems, personal experience here.

We just have each computer and it's monitor running off the battery back up side, with the printer and power supply for peripheral stuff like the router plugged into the non battery back up side.

The non battery back up side gives surge protection, you can also run your ADSL telephone line through the unit to enable a surge protection on your phone line, which in the case of a lightning strike can cook your router.

Today in sunny Melbourne we had a short fierce storm come through, it lasted about 15 minutes and was preceded by lightning strikes, at one stage the fluorescent lights dimmed, whilst the tungsten went out, all battery back ups gave out their audible power failure signal, but all of the computers stayed on.

The last one I purchased was only 5 weeks ago, I paid a shade under $120.00, so this price is quite good, depends upon delivery though.

Mick.

If you are suffering from brownouts i.e. drops in supply voltage for more than a couple of cyles, then the best way to maintain the voltage is with a UPS. A UPS without a battery is a paperweight.The only other way would be with a motor driven, variable tap transformer, but if the brownout is low enough or long enough that just won't work. Surge protectors are a waste of money.

Have you spoken to your power provider. If your supply is regularly dropping well below 220v, which it must be for your computer to turn off, there is a major problem with the supply and your provider should be addressing it.

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

Have a read here: https://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/pl...18/#post619937

Very interesting reading indeed!

So what I really need is a UPS unit, but problems aren't over.
Now I need to find the best reliable product for the money.

The most common brand seems to be APC but I read on Newegg forums about APC products, they're NOT compatible with PFC technology of modern PSUs and so they can cause damages.

What about CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD or any other suggestion with links please?
My system: Intel 8500, PSU 650W, graphic Geforce GTX460, 4 hard disks, monitor 24", speakers and occasionally an external hard disk.
Thank you

Originally Posted by Optimark

Our small business has 5 computers, all of them running a battery back up or uninterrupted power supply (UPS).

The current UPS that we are switching over to are the Eton 3S 700VA 420W power supply Eaton 3S 3S700AU 700VA/ 420W Standby Powerboard UPS

Thanks for suggestion, I was right looking at the same product!
But case is often computers for standard office use aren't such power demanding plus (please ready post above) those computers' PSUs might not have the PFC technology so any good UPS (like yours) will be good enough.

Melbourne's weather was just too crazy today!

Originally Posted by Avery

Have you spoken to your power provider. If your supply is regularly dropping well below 220v, which it must be for your computer to turn off, there is a major problem with the supply and your provider should be addressing it.

My provider for SURE know the problem so that they have web links to check known power outages but guess what, the web page's certificate isn't valid so Firefox doesn't allow me to go there.
I tried with a proxy and Google tells me that the API bla bla bla is no more available!
To make it short I gave up since I am dealing with PSU's distributor RMA process and they already dodged me 3 times!

We had a surge problem 25 May, when a spike came down the line and resulted in a suburb wide blackout.

Our surge protectors did their job, and protected the computers. However, the modem was on a separate powerline, that was not protected.

The result was that the spike came through the modem and into two laptops, frying them.

According to United Energy, under the 'Electricity Industry Act 2000', they are not liable if a tree falls across a powerline causing any downstream damage. The Ombudsman is also of no help.

Just to cap it off, we are living in a shed, whilst we build. The insurance company will not cover us until we build a house - so no home owners insurance.

With this experience in mind, the new house will be off grid, and electrically self sufficient, as soon as possible.

lol i live in Darwin's rural area , a brown out hot spot ,. PSU's on my pc's were lasting 3 months on surge protectors , until i bought 4 , 1600watt hour UPS's ,
there frigging great , nothing has blown up plugged into them for 2 years now
they were $250 each from a Melbourne distributor off eBay , and are running fine , like any thing with batterys , dont run them too dead flat and they will last a long time , shut them down at 1/2 power showing (sealed lead acid battery's )

5x a day the " BEEP BEEP" go's off for a brown out happening

tv runs for 1 1/2 hours , PC for 30min , after a cyclone , i hooked one up to make a cup of coffee , while the power was still out , and watched the news on TV

surge protectors dont stop brown outs, i found out the expensive way

and haven't been late for work from the alarm clock loosing its time

Originally Posted by SawDustSniffer

until i bought 4 , 1600watt hour UPS's ,
there frigging great , nothing has blown up plugged into them for 2 years now
they were $250 each from a Melbourne distributor off eBay

Could you please tell brand and model also the PSU's is important too.
Thanks.

You don't need a huge UPS.....

I live in an area with frequent power cuts, so both my main office PC and HTPC have their own UPS. I use these:

EATON E Series UPS - 600VA, 360W (ENV600HA) | Techbuy Australia

I'm not interested in using the computer while the power is out - I just want it to shut down in an orderly manner. Eaton have free software that does this (under Windows); the UPS plugs into the PC via a USB connection. This means I DON'T need to run the monitor off the UPS, only the PC itself. If the power fails the UPS software will automatically shut the PC down properly after about 5 minutes -no chance of hard drives crashing or corrupted data. I chose 5 minutes just in case the power outage is just a glitch, in which case the UPS can run the PC until power comes back, the monitor turns back on, and all is back to normal. If our power doesn't come back in a few minutes, then it ain't coming back for hours/days, and no size of home-grade UPS is going to help you with that.....

Originally Posted by allfix

So what I really need is a UPS unit, but problems aren't over.

Nothing addresses all those anomalies (except a building wide UPS unit located at the service enterance). That UPS connects a computer directly to AC mains. And switches to batteries when AC voltage gets low. It's only function - to provide temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout.

Your computer must work perfectly normal even when incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity (a brownout). How often is your electricity doing that? If so, then at greatest risk are motorized appliances such as the refrigerator, air conditioner, and dishwasher. Those need the AVR in a UPS. Not electronics. International design standards (for electronics), even decades before the first IBM PC existed, demands all lower voltages never cause harm. Low voltages are only harmful to motorized appliances.

Why would a computer need AVR? Advertising. Due to superior AVR inside every electronics, low AC voltage means internal DC voltages never change.

Your original question was speculation about another completely different anomaly - a destructive transient. Read the numeric specs for every UPS. Its numbers typically say protection is near zero. Even smaller than what is found in most $20 power strip protectors. No way around spec numbers. Its protection is only what the spec numbers claim. Many recommend a UPS to do what even the manufacturer does not claim. Again, advertising without numbers creates myths; knowledge only from subjective speculation. Numbers seperate myths from honest recommendations.

A facility that must never have hardware failures would never install that UPS. The superior solution, proven by over 100 years of science and experience, is a completely different device, costing less money, and located where transients are made irrelevant. At the service entrance.

Now, why did a PSU die? Nobody can say until the internal failed part is identified. Almost all damage occurs without any visual indication. Test equipment (either a $10 multimeter or a $1000 oscilloscope) may be required to 'see'. Most failures are due to manufacturing defects. Brand names say little. Manufacturing defects exist in all brands. Manufacturing defects are the reason for most failures.

Power cuts never cause damage. All voltages down to zero is perfectly ideal voltage for electronics. Either electronics works perfectly fine (even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity). Or electronics power off normally.

Even disk drives are not harmed by power off. All power off are completely unexpected to a disk drive. Makes no difference if power is lost during a shutdown or due to a national wide blackout. To all disk drives, that is still a normal power off. The equivalent of a power switch on other devices is low voltage to a disk drive. Normal power off for all disk drives is the always unexpected voltage drop. Losing power is never destructive to any electronics - especially disk drives.

Life expectancy of a UPS: most all money goes into the battery. Electronics inside a UPS are as cheap as possible. Expect to replace its battery every three years. Or replace the entire UPS for only a little more money.

PFC does not cause damage. If a PSU has active PFC, then the active circuit may be confused by a UPS. Because most UPSes output the 'dirtiest' power when in battery backup mode. A confused active PFC circuit is never damaged. It is only confused and shuts off.

Size a UPS: no computer is consuming 500 watts. We engineers calculate currents required for each voltage. Then dumb it down for a computer assembler. A computer that consumes 200 watts and never more than 350 watts - we tell the computer assembler he needs a 700 watt supply. Because telling him current numbers (what is only relevant) is too complex. Easier is to recommend that 700 watt supply. Is that computer generating heat like a four slice toaster? Of course not. Most of the time, it consumes less than 200 watts.

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

You don't need a huge UPS.....

I live in an area with frequent power cuts, so both my main office PC and HTPC have their own UPS. I use these:

EATON E Series UPS - 600VA, 360W (ENV600HA) | Techbuy Australia

I'm not interested in using the computer while the power is out - I just want it to shut down in an orderly manner. Eaton have free software that does this (under Windows); the UPS plugs into the PC via a USB connection. This means I DON'T need to run the monitor off the UPS, only the PC itself. If the power fails the UPS software will automatically shut the PC down properly after about 5 minutes -no chance of hard drives crashing or corrupted data. I chose 5 minutes just in case the power outage is just a glitch, in which case the UPS can run the PC until power comes back, the monitor turns back on, and all is back to normal. If our power doesn't come back in a few minutes, then it ain't coming back for hours/days, and no size of home-grade UPS is going to help you with that.....

I have the exact same requirements, I don't need to save any work just I want to SAVE expensive components.
This component looks reliable and simple, I might need the 600W version though I still need to check if it is compatible with active PFC based PSUs.
I used many $20 yumcha PSUs, Coolermaster, Antec at the same house and never had a problem, then I had the unlucky (and stupid) idea to give it a try at the Enermax, an EXPENSIVE one!
I guess anyone knows the old said "you know what you leave but you don't know what you get".
Enermax global diverting me to Australian distributor Rectron, then Rectron promised to call me back it never happened, I had to call back and they diverted me back to Enermax global which is supposed to contact me!