Fixin me ugly fugly dial!!

**Stuart** · 23rd August 2007, 11:20 PM

Compressed - yes. But a non-destructive compression. Comparing it to JPG is misleading, as jpeg is an incredibly destructive compression algorithm (very effective for the job it is intended for - not knocking JPG as a format). When I decompress my RAW images, yeah, I end up with a 40 odd MB file. But it got there non-destructively.

I use RAW as a term as the industry's accepted term, as there is no single RAW format - saves me saying MRW, RAF, DNG, CRW, CR2, KDC, DCR, NEF, ORF, PTX, PEF, ARW, SRF, X3F, ERF, MOS - any I missed?

At least RAW (other than above-mentioned non-destructive compression) has no other processing done to it before you get it into your computer. In processing the RAW format (see above list), you can choose to then accept the decisions the camera was making, but each and every one is your choice - you can modify every one of them.

I shoot RAW only (ok MRW in my case), then convert the image to DNG, and store it in that format. When I want a photo for something, I then process the image (initially through Lightroom, and send images over to Photoshop if they need the extra clout - normally don't - Lightroom is pretty powerful in its own right) and output based on need - could be TIFF, JPG, etc etc.

As to my initial statement - real Pros DO use RAW. Most Pro cameras offer little else.

They may then, in processing, choose to accept the camera's suggestions (contained in the metadata) for how it recommends the image to be processed, but they do that themselves, not in-camera.

BTW - Major - I'm not surprised by the reaction you got from the labs. Don't know how far into the industry DNG has gotten, but glad it is. Everything I shoot gets converted into DNG as I take it off the card, so that is the format I store it in. Glad to hear I'm adhering to industry best practice

FWIW, Lightroom allows me to have the images converted automatically to DNG as it imports them into the computer, so that's my standard workflow. There are cameras that now shoot DNG natively (finally - a standard 'RAW' format). DNG for those that don't know, invented by.....ta-da....Adobe.

Getting right back to Dingo's original question - I recommend Adobe Photoshop Lightroom. Not as cheap as many, but it keeps track of my 15,000 or so photographic library, and allows significant editing (totally non-destructive editing at that, which is amazing - if I completely balls it up, the original is untouched). The fact that it is totally non destructive means that each photo that I edit doesn't suddenly blow my library size out - if it did, every photo I edited would go from 8MB or so to 40MB or so. Most (all) photos need some form of processing, even if it is just accepting the camera's recommendations, and I rather not have my library go from its current size to one 4 times larger.

**wheelinround** · 24th August 2007, 09:31 AM

I have been using Adobe Photoshop since it was Aldus Photostyler still have original software and in comparison not much has changed in all those years maybe a few add ons. Package is still just a few hundred meg

Corel PSP uses/does RAW and uses all of Photoshop plugins as does many other photo editing software these days.
Big advantage of Corel now is its combing with Corel Draw and ULEAD Video Editing software as well as a buring package and Win DVD.
The only stupid thing Corel did ws dump its version of Linux.

Adobe is over priced well and truley for the AU market.
Professional well thats like the man who can create a work of art from wood with hand tools to a man who needs the latest and greatest in electrical and power tools to do the same. Like the argument between windows and Linux.

**MajorPanic** · 24th August 2007, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by echnidna

I hear what you say BM.

Which is conventional pro theory,

I don't think Corel is stupid,

So if Paint Shop Pro is crap,

Why did Corel Buy It?

And why is Corel promoting it at a higher degree than photoshop?

Bob,

Trot down to your local newsagent & have a look at the computer/digital mags. How many Corel Graphic Software based magazines do you see?

I use a very small local newsagent & even they have 3 different PhotoShop mags. These aren't just a "mugs guide to" they are issue # publications.
When I go to our much larger shopping centre newsagent I'm spoilt for choice with PhotoShop mags from the US, UK & Europe.

PaintShop Pro is a great program, don't get me wrong, but, it's aimed at a more domestic market.

Adobe don't have to promote Photoshop very much as it's the leader in it's field for professionals, this is very much like AutoCAD. The general public don't see too much promotion but I see the big mail-outs from Adobe & Autodesk promoting new versions, usually aimed at the pro end of the market. That's why these programs are 'industry standard' because the 'industry' is driven by professionals & not the general public.

**Stuart** · 24th August 2007, 10:48 PM

Can't remember the last time I was invited to the latest release presentation of PaintShopPro... Can't remember the first time either.

**wheelinround** · 25th August 2007, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by MajorPanic

Bob,

Trot down to your local newsagent & have a look at the computer/digital mags. How many Corel Graphic Software based magazines do you see?

I use a very small local newsagent & even they have 3 different PhotoShop mags. These aren't just a "mugs guide to" they are issue # publications.
When I go to our much larger shopping centre newsagent I'm spoilt for choice with PhotoShop mags from the US, UK & Europe.

Yes thats right many need to be trained to use Phototshop and as its signed off by Pro's who should without a dout e able to just hook in and use it.

Paintshop Pro is simple to use and has online training etc even a Corel user group.

PaintShop Pro is a great program, don't get me wrong, but, it's aimed at a more domestic market.

Adobe don't have to promote Photoshop very much as it's the leader in it's field for professionals, this is very much like AutoCAD. The general public don't see too much promotion but I see the big mail-outs from Adobe & Autodesk promoting new versions, usually aimed at the pro end of the market. That's why these programs are 'industry standard' because the 'industry' is driven by professionals & not the general public.

Adobe doesn't promote gee last time I picked up any computer magazine it was full of it articles and how too's

. With the price tags of $7k for Autocad a great program which you have to either buy so many add ons for or write them up yourself.

Hey the bigest thing here is that it is a product Dingo needs how far is he going to go with it............bit like buying a Mig welder and then buying a trolly to tote it round on

Originally Posted by Stuart.

Can't remember the last time I was invited to the latest release presentation of PaintShopPro... Can't remember the first time either.

I have been invited never went and recently to ULEAD 11's release didn't go shyte weather and inner city.

Isn't it a bit odd all these magazines on the pro stuff for pro's in pro talk.

**echnidna** · 25th August 2007, 08:36 AM

So there'ya W.D. the good oil on photography

If'n yer gunna be a pro photographer buy photoshop.

If'n yer gunna stay amatuer use Paint Shop Pro and save heapsa loot.

**Gingermick** · 7th September 2007, 11:50 PM

Just get some cosmetic surgery then you wont have to worry about it

**Stringy** · 10th September 2007, 02:28 PM

Fix me ugly fugly dial,

Ding, why have you not supplied photos for the forumites to work with

.

Post photos on forum and send/pm un-compressed ones to those who wish to work on a fix. The results could be interesting and an improvement on the current dingo portrait.

You definitely have nothing to lose

!

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