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  1. #1
    FenceFurniture's Avatar
    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Default Getting towards new laptop time - which brand these days?

    G'day

    My current Toshiba laptop is now 4½ years old, and may be starting to show some signs of age - one of the USB ports is much slower than the other two for copying, and seems to have trouble accepting a USB-A sometimes. I guess that might be repairable. The speed of USB-C is also very appealing.

    Anyhoo, I'm thinking it may be time to upgrade in the next 6 months, and given that Toshiba are out of the Laptop business now I'm wondering what the goss is? Changing laptops is usually very painful for me because of the high level of customisation I do - and then forget how to do it, particularly in Excel (currently Office 2016).

    This is a pretty high spec unit (refer attachment for full spec), and the main parts are:
    17" 4k screen, used in conjunction with a 28" 4k Monitor (4k is fabulous for sharpness)
    16GB RAM
    Intel i7-6500 2.50Ghz, quad core processor
    512GB SSD
    Windows 10 Home, 64bit

    Computer Specs.jpg

    Is there any advantage to Windows Pro? Or do the updates just come a bit earlier and users are the guinea pigs?

    I do some pretty heavy processing quite regularly which is why I like an i7 quad core. I may be able to get by with 8GB RAM, but it's pretty cheap these days so I'd probably stay at 16GB.

    I have heard that AMD processors are now superior to Intel - any thoughts on that?

    Internal DAC - quality doesn't really matter too much because I put music out through a separate DAC/Amp (Schiit Jotunheim)

    Note that I do ZERO gaming so a Graphics card only has to handle iView etc and some low level Photoshop work.


    ALTERNATIVE THOUGHT BUBBLE:
    I suppose I could have a Desktop built and keep this laptop for other things, given that there is nothing particular wrong with it apart from being a little long in the tooth. (I had my previous Dell laptop for 10 years trouble free). That would mean I'd have to put a UPS in place because we get a higher than usual amount of blackouts up here. That would make it much easier to take the laptop to the shed (bit of a hassle unplugging everything now).

    A desktop could be fairly easily upgraded too......Hmmmm
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  3. #2
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    you are wrong about Pro getting updates earlier than Home. Regular monthly security updates come at exactly the same time. Feature Updates are released at the same time, but the biggest factor that influences when you get the update or not is your hardware (drivers) and software (any incompatibilities like AV that doesn't like newer versions) nothing to do whether it's deemed home or pro. There are several features that Home does not have that could be important to you or not - bitlocker is the big one in my view, where your drive is encrypted and your account is the only one that can get to it; possibly not a concern for a "home based" laptop unless theft is of concern, bigger issue if you travel with it a lot.

    Personally I use a Microsoft Surface Book, but that's not a device for everyone, and as an ex-employee I had brand loyalty in mind when i purchased it. Other than that, my go-to would be a Dell machine and I have a mate who just bought one and he's happy (although it still came with crapware installed in the form of a 3rd party antivirus).

    I also have a 3rd party dock unit that allows me to take my laptop where I need, when I need, which means i can take it to the lounge or the back yard (for connecting to my coffee roasting instrumentation), and it's basically two cable connection when i get back - the USB for the dock, and the power pack.

    I don't mind having a desktop as the "in office" device but in all honesty I find it gets left by the wayside and rarely turned on. There's very few apps that I have dedicated to that machine that I haven't moved over to the laptop. You may find that more appealing than I do, but I am already running a reasonable processor

    how's the battery in your current laptop? That often is the deciding factor whether a device can truly be a "portable" device or not

  4. #3
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    Perhaps an NUC would suit or if you want have a talk to Master P.
    CHRIS

  5. #4
    FenceFurniture's Avatar
    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Quote Originally Posted by poundy View Post
    how's the battery in your current laptop? That often is the deciding factor whether a device can truly be a "portable" device or not
    I actually don't know because it almost never goes out - that could change though.
    Quote Originally Posted by poundy View Post
    you are wrong about Pro getting updates earlier than Home. Regular monthly security updates come at exactly the same time. Feature Updates are released at the same time, but the biggest factor that influences when you get the update or not is your hardware (drivers) and software (any incompatibilities like AV that doesn't like newer versions) nothing to do whether it's deemed home or pro. There are several features that Home does not have that could be important to you or not - bitlocker is the big one in my view, where your drive is encrypted and your account is the only one that can get to it; possibly not a concern for a "home based" laptop unless theft is of concern, bigger issue if you travel with it a lot.

    Personally I use a Microsoft Surface Book, but that's not a device for everyone, and as an ex-employee I had brand loyalty in mind when i purchased it. Other than that, my go-to would be a Dell machine and I have a mate who just bought one and he's happy (although it still came with crapware installed in the form of a 3rd party antivirus).

    I also have a 3rd party dock unit that allows me to take my laptop where I need, when I need, which means i can take it to the lounge or the back yard (for connecting to my coffee roasting instrumentation), and it's basically two cable connection when i get back - the USB for the dock, and the power pack.

    I don't mind having a desktop as the "in office" device but in all honesty I find it gets left by the wayside and rarely turned on. There's very few apps that I have dedicated to that machine that I haven't moved over to the laptop. You may find that more appealing than I do, but I am already running a reasonable processor
    I had a dock for my Dell - it was good, but in those days it was in and out at least 4 times a week.

    I have a suspicion that the USB ports are wearing out - having a lot of trouble with the keyboard ceasing to type lately, and as soon as I wiggle to USB Hub cable into the Laptop it works again. Driving me nuts actually.

    Just a BTW because I have just gone through this - don't get a Huion Pen/Tablet H430P. Just had one delivered this morning and the bloody thing won't double click (pen nib) and even to single click one has to be INSANELY accurate or it just drags the item to be clicked. Can't pgm Back/F/Up/Down into the four buttons either - looks like there's no way it can be one. Absolute POS compared to a Wacom Intuous ('cept the cover sheet on mine has worn out and there are no replacements available). The Huion was only $44 but it's a bad buy at even $1. Not fit for purpose.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  6. #5
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    the dock I have is not the manufacturer specific one. It's the older model of one of these. If I was doing it now, since I don't need to support older devices that use USB3, I'd buy one of their USB-C-PD ones like this and that'd eliminate my need for a separate charger.
    While I haven't unplugged this device many times since March, before that it was moved in and out of one of these docks multiple times a day as I have an identical one in the office, and a few years ago I was a mobile worker doing the same in one of my customer sites (same docks)... so USB3 ports and plugs are very robust.

  7. #6
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    I got my girls s/h lenovo carbon x1 for school, just replaced at about 5-6 years, minor problems (1 screen connector worked loose, the other needed a new fan as most of the blades broke off). They are getting a bit odd now, things like the touch pad not behaving.
    But I reckon 3 years of school use after a (probable) few years commercial use isn't bad.
    I replaced with hp, mainly because I could get a corporate discount. My employer used to use lenovo and now hp, both always have been reliable for me.
    Amd do seem to have an edge price wise at the moment, but I couldn't find the features I wanted with the rizen processor.
    I doubt there is much between Dell lenovo and hp for most purposes.

  8. #7
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    Running a 2019 Dell XPS 15, 6 core I7, 32 GB Ram, 512 GB SSD. Can use a Dell (or other) Lightning dock for external monitor drives etc, but can HDMI into monitor or TV in 4k straight from the notebook as well. Comes with a 12m standard warranty, but offer a 3yr extended warranty with onsite service as an option if you want it. Believe that there is a 17in version available as well, wife has a XPS 13 similar spec except a 4 core I7. Happy with both of them after a year.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  9. #8
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    Default Dont buy a new one....

    For disk encryption, you'd be nuts to use BitLocker. Use VeraCrypt*.

    Why not keep the lappie and buy a strong PC - 1/3rd the price, 4 times the power.

    Use Remote Desktop or RealVNC/TightVNC** to access the PC from your laptop. Get the PC to do all the heavy lifting and keep the lappie essentially as a remote screen.

    * VeraCrypt - Free Open source disk encryption with strong security for the Paranoid
    ** examples: The Best VNC Screen-Sharing Software


    I repair a LOT of laptops for friends and family. 4 this year alone. I buy replacement components and upgrades off AliExpress... screens, bezels, keyboards, back plates... even faster RAM, SSD's, re-goozing the CPU and video, cleaning fans out.... I've also soldered on new USB ports (my one USEFUL skill!)

    One was a MSI Gaming laptop, 12 months old, glitched like crazy.... owner threw it out. Did all the above, cost me a total of $76 and they begged for it back... all new, shiny, fixed and fast

  10. #9
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    Brett,

    Put aside the emotional aspect for a few minutes & think - do you REALLY need a laptop?? (quoting you above - "... it almost never goes out... ") - so your "Though Bubble" should probably be seriously considered. You pay a premium for a laptop. Even with a UPS, you will get a much better performing desktop for less money.

    A desktop will be a way better bet for demanding tasks such as video editing etc - IF you get a high performance build.

    With regard to Pro vs Home -
    Main Pro features:
    Being able to join a domain (including Azure Active Directory for single sign-on to various MS business cloud services)
    Use of group policy
    Hyper-V for virtualisation
    BitLocker - whole disk encryption
    Window Information Protection - protect against potential data leakage.
    Mobile Device Management
    Enterprise State Roaming
    Dynamic Provisioning
    Enterprise mode Internet Explorer
    Remote Desktop
    Kiosk Mode (which locks a PC to running only one modern application, to use like a kiosk)
    Assigned access - run different applications depending on the user and keep individual identities separate and secured
    Pro users can get updates from Windows Update for Business, which includes options for scheduling updates so they don't reboot PCs at important times.


    As you can see, most of this is business focused & unlikely to be important for a home user.


    There is a RAM limit of 128GB for Home & 2TB for Pro


    There is also a "Workstation Edition" that has a 6TB RAM capability & support for some esoteric performance hardware, plus support for 4 CPU sockets (physical CPU) - all editions can support 256 CPU cores.

    It is easy to upgrade from Home to Pro if that is a consideration. However most "performance" systems will come bundled with Pro.

    Concerning brands - I favour Dell laptops these days. You can get some really good deals from their refurbished on-line shop:
    Access Denied

    However, do check any refurbished price against their retail online shop, as sometimes the brand new systems are on special at a lesser price. Once you see a good deal on-line, ring & talk to sales - they will often add further discounts to secure a sale - be pushy!! (They usually don't discount refurbished systems, but worth asking).

    If you do want a performance laptop - here are a couple - 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, i7 CPU
    Access Denied (EDIT - says access denied but links work!! Forum s/ware strikes again)
    Access Denied

    For a desktop I would consider a custom build using quality parts from a reputable PC builder. I have bought parts (but not whole systems) from PC CaseGear LINK - call them & explain what you want. There are other builders of couse - check reviews on places like Whirlpool.

    Speaking for Whirlpool, here are some build specs - gaming oriented but suitable for high workloads
    Whirlpool link



    If you are doing any video work, a good GPU will be important & is another reason for a desktop.

    Finally, RAM is now cheap - 32GB !!!!!

  11. #10
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    Brett, I have one of these for video editing

    Specification for GT72 6QD Dominator G | Laptops - The best gaming laptop provider | MSI Global

    worked very well for the past 5 years....

  12. #11
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    RossM -"Concerning brands - I favour Dell laptops these days. You can get some really good deals from their refurbished on-line shop:"

    My experience with a Dell refurbished laptop. Bought in January 2019. As a laptop it worked pretty good except - every second time I turned it on the WiFi did not work, almost like it did not exist. Mid January the screen froze, and I was unable to shut down. Screen went grey and I waited till the battery went flat. After recharging it worked but I had enough and returned it for a refund - and that took around four weeks I think.

    This had been my only experience with a lap top.

  13. #12
    FenceFurniture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    A desktop could be fairly easily upgraded too......Hmmmm
    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    Put aside the emotional aspect for a few minutes & think - do you REALLY need a laptop?? (quoting you above - "... it almost never goes out... ") - so your "Though Bubble" should probably be seriously considered. You pay a premium for a laptop. Even with a UPS, you will get a much better performing desktop for less money.
    And I can keep the current Laptop until it's Kangarooted - I hear yer Ross! I dare say I could get at LEAST $100 for the current one if I wanted to sell it.

    Just an update on my observations (or not....as it turns out) of the USB ports performances. The one on the left side that I thought was slooooowing down. Err, it's, err, it's a USB t...t....t....two port, so I'd be deeply suspicious that it's always been as slow as it is now. BUT...in my defence....what dickhead thought it was a good idea to put 2x USB-3 ports and make the other one USB-2, to save, fwhooooh, at least a coupla dollars.

    The other port that I had a suspicion that might have been getting loose appears, for the moment anyway, to have been fixed by changing the cable. If that is the case, then it's very good that the cable is the sacrificial lamb, and not the port.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    A desktop will be a way better bet for demanding tasks such as video editing etc - IF you get a high performance build.
    Yes. I'm drawn towards this solution as an upgrade - not in the least because it is future upgradeable to an extent anyway. With a Laptop - that's it pretty much - no real hardware upgrades. So the Laptop becomes a backup tool, and occasional outings (I really should get out more anyway ). I can upgrade my JRiver Media Center licence to "Master" or whatever it is, and then Lola's Mac (! ) can go on it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    For a desktop I would consider a custom build using quality parts from a reputable PC builder.
    If I did go desktop then that is what I would do. It would also give me the option of being able to put a top-flight DAC in it - something like an ESS Sabre (although I think I read recently that they've been knocked off their perch by another mob). That would mean that for my desktop sound I don't have to have amps with DACs in them. (earlier this year I put a $170 Cambridge Audio DacMagic, which is smaller than a box of matches, between the computer and the Harman Kardon Studio 2 speaker and the difference in quality of sound was huge - that's a speaker that punches way above it's price, btw - excellent for shed work).

    It's all about high quality sound these days for me. I reckon I have 10 years or less or reasonable hearing left, and I aim to enjoy them, but without degrading what I have. From the Laptop via JRiver MC 26, I'm running a Schiit Jotunheim DAC/Pre-Amp into a pair of Focal Stellia headphones, and just about add a pair of Hedd 7" Studio Monitors with a Focal Cub3 Sub woofer. At some point I may upgrade the Jotunheim to a Focal Arche headphone amp. Actually playing the music is not taxing at all on a computer, but all the background work can certainly be.

    With a Desktop I could also put in large SSDs and have room for others when and if. I just received a 4TB Samsung SSD which I have put into an enclosure, so it acts like an external SSD but at twice the capacity for half the price, but twice the (small) dimensions.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handyjack View Post
    RossM -"Concerning brands - I favour Dell laptops these days. You can get some really good deals from their refurbished on-line shop:"

    My experience with a Dell refurbished laptop. Bought in January 2019. As a laptop it worked pretty good except - every second time I turned it on the WiFi did not work, almost like it did not exist. Mid January the screen froze, and I was unable to shut down. Screen went grey and I waited till the battery went flat. After recharging it worked but I had enough and returned it for a refund - and that took around four weeks I think.

    This had been my only experience with a lap top.
    A sample of one.

    The Dell refurbished come with a full 1 year warranty in Australia, so you should have had it fixed by them. Depending on the model, it may even be an on-site warranty.

    I have bought many items from refurbished store for business purposes, and have had no issues. Sample of about 100.

  15. #14
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    Agreed. I've bought four refurbished laptops for family (ASUS).... only one had a problem. The front speakers were disconnected at the header as the IT dude pulling the excess RAM (sold with 8) didn't plug it back on.

    A trivial fix.

    They are outstanding value. Not sure where they get them from, but they never have a scratch, mark, speck of dust or any sign of any use.... must have been federal public servant machines ???

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    Agreed. I've bought four refurbished laptops.....

    They are outstanding value. Not sure where they get them from, but they never have a scratch, mark, speck of dust or any sign of any use.... must have been federal public servant machines ???
    When I was working, mostly the laptops were plugged into a dock in a closed position with a keyboard, mouse and monitor attached and replaced every three years so there was a good chance they stayed in pristine condition.

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