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Thread: MS Office

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussiephil View Post
    The only issue i have with this advice Ross is that you are inadvertently promoting invalid (dodgy) use under the license if those 5 other people are not part of the one family household (my bolding below), this family license is no different than the old 3 members of the same household for office 2016/2019 versions.

    From MS FAQ
    If you have an active Microsoft 365 Family subscription, you can share it with up to five members of your household. Each household member you share your subscription with can install Microsoft 365 on all their devices and sign in to five devices at the same time.
    To add someone to your subscription, visit https://account.microsoft.com and follow the on-screen instructions to add a user. Each person you add will receive an email with the steps they need to follow. Once they have accepted and completed the steps, their information, including the installs they are using, will appear on their My Account page. You can stop sharing your subscription with someone or remove a device they are using at https://account.microsoft.com.
    Hi Phil,

    Actually, there is nothing in the EULA that defines household.

    "Family", in MS 365 terms, is a technical construct that groups people together for the purposes of allocating the shared license. You can check the appropriate agreements here:
    Services Agreement - Microsoft Services Agreement
    Supplement covering consumer products - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Uset...ly_English.htm

    And this - from a piece of MS marketing wording that I had sent to me (as part of partner program a while back) - admittedly it was for the earlier naming of the product (bold & underline is mine):
    "When you subscribe to Office 365 Home, you can share your subscription benefits with up to four friends or family members. It’s as simple as sending an email."

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    My existing installation has not been flagged or blocked in at least three years of use but I was told by you?? that it was definitely a rip off license number so I am being cautious this time. It seems no one can be assured that the copy they buy is not dodgy, is that correct? Office Works sell license numbers so I don't think they would be dodgy.
    Hi Chris,

    Legitimate resellers will supply activation codes and these won't be "dodgy" .

    A mainstream business like Officeworks certainly won't be engaging in illegal activities, so if you purchase through them you will be fine.

    The old adage "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is" applies. The FleaBay sellers of very cheap Office codes, and web sites that are not main stream and have very low pricing, are likely to be using illegitimate codes. They can't resell legitimate licenses at a profit if the price is less that about 20% of the price you see from OfficeWorks, JB HiFi etc.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    Hi Phil,

    Actually, there is nothing in the EULA that defines household.

    "Family", in MS 365 terms, is a technical construct that groups people together for the purposes of allocating the shared license. You can check the appropriate agreements here:
    Services Agreement - Microsoft Services Agreement
    Supplement covering consumer products - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Uset...ly_English.htm

    And this - from a piece of MS marketing wording that I had sent to me (as part of partner program a while back) - admittedly it was for the earlier naming of the product (bold & underline is mine):
    "When you subscribe to Office 365 Home, you can share your subscription benefits with up to four friends or family members. It’s as simple as sending an email."
    Interesting wording from the marketing material but it's a big grey area. all the current info refers to a household and i'm sure that if push came to shove that the dictionary meaning would be used as a group of people residing under the same roof.
    How that fit's into modern family structures i guess is the grey area and what about a group of friends in a share house.

    It why i used the term inadvertent with dodgy in brackets as 5 other people you know does not mean a household.

    @ Chris, obviously Ross and I are getting into the semantics of definitions of words used in EULA, just buy your copy from OfficeWorks, Harris Technology, JB or even MS themselves and you will get a completely valid license key without question. Just pick the cheapest of the bunch.

    The only real question is 12 month sub or spend some more and outright buy.

  5. #19
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    Libre Office, free, reads and can save MS office no problem, less of a drain on computer resources as well
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussiephil View Post
    Interesting wording from the marketing material but it's a big grey area. all the current info refers to a household and i'm sure that if push came to shove that the dictionary meaning would be used as a group of people residing under the same roof.
    How that fit's into modern family structures i guess is the grey area and what about a group of friends in a share house.

    It why i used the term inadvertent with dodgy in brackets as 5 other people you know does not mean a household.

    @ Chris, obviously Ross and I are getting into the semantics of definitions of words used in EULA, just buy your copy from OfficeWorks, Harris Technology, JB or even MS themselves and you will get a completely valid license key without question. Just pick the cheapest of the bunch.

    The only real question is 12 month sub or spend some more and outright buy.
    Hi Phil,

    OK - I've had a quick look at the MS Docs - this is the advice on MS official website:
    "Who can I share my Microsoft 365 Family subscription with?
    You can share your subscription benefits with up to five other people, (total of 6 people using your subscription). These people can be inside or outside of your family group, and each person can install Office on all their devices and be signed in to Office on five devices at the same time."


    Learn more about sharing your Microsoft 365 Family subscription - Office Support

    However, as you would expect, the other people should trust you; the owner of the subscription has control over allocating & revoking the subscription, and the software will stop working if subscription is revoked.
    However the owner can't access any information from others within the subscription (e.g. they can't see contents of someone else's OneDrive or read other people's email). i.e. they are not a superuser or systems admin, just a licensing allocator.

  7. #21
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    I have MS Office (2019, v16.36) on my MacBook Pro. I have tried Open Office and Libra Office (both have the same engine), as well as the Mac versions (Pages, Numbers, Keynote), and none of these are as good as MS Office. Of especial importance is Excel, where the Comment is so important to my practice (I am able to write patient notes to go with each appointment financial details). The Comment on all the others is poorly developed.

    It is important that I have a stand-alone set up, which means that I cannot depend on a on-line version. My question is whether Google Docs can be used off-line, and if so, can it be downloaded to a Mac?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    Hi Phil,

    OK - I've had a quick look at the MS Docs - this is the advice on MS official website:
    "Who can I share my Microsoft 365 Family subscription with?
    You can share your subscription benefits with up to five other people, (total of 6 people using your subscription). These people can be inside or outside of your family group, and each person can install Office on all their devices and be signed in to Office on five devices at the same time."


    Learn more about sharing your Microsoft 365 Family subscription - Office Support

    However, as you would expect, the other people should trust you; the owner of the subscription has control over allocating & revoking the subscription, and the software will stop working if subscription is revoked.
    However the owner can't access any information from others within the subscription (e.g. they can't see contents of someone else's OneDrive or read other people's email). i.e. they are not a superuser or systems admin, just a licensing allocator.
    Hi Ross

    I wasn't going to reply but this is all useful in the long run i hope, I agree that the owner has the control and can't see others content.
    Note that all my quotes were also from official MS pages.

    It would seem that even MS can't agree with itself, from the AU pages we get this https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/micr...eading-4pb57ww

    You will still have the same users on your new Microsoft 365 Family subscription up to five other family members within your home, (unrelated) roommates or even remote family members
    You can share Microsoft 365 Family with 5 other people in your household, for a total of 6 users. Microsoft 365 Personal can be used by one person.
    If you have an active Microsoft 365 Family subscription, you can share it with up to five members of your household. Each household member you share your subscription with can install Microsoft 365 on all their devices and sign in to five devices at the same time.

    -------------------
    Subtle differences between countries maybe as your support pages is for the US

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    I have MS Office (2019, v16.36) on my MacBook Pro. I have tried Open Office and Libra Office (both have the same engine), as well as the Mac versions (Pages, Numbers, Keynote), and none of these are as good as MS Office. Of especial importance is Excel, where the Comment is so important to my practice (I am able to write patient notes to go with each appointment financial details). The Comment on all the others is poorly developed.

    It is important that I have a stand-alone set up, which means that I cannot depend on a on-line version. My question is whether Google Docs can be used off-line, and if so, can it be downloaded to a Mac?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Hi Derek,

    Given the sensitive nature of your line of work, I would never trust Google Docs as a practice/patient management tool. From my post above: You need to be aware that you have handed Google rights to the content. From their terms of service. "... you give Google a worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through the Service..."

    They claim that they do not publicly display content indexed from Google Docs, but do not provide any assurances that this information is not used within their organisation. Based on terms of service, its likely that it is so used. And I'm not confident of their controls to prevent leaking data.

    Also, Google have a long history of introducing products and then discontinuing these at very short notice - I've had clients burnt from this. A great search engine, but I don't have any trust in them as a business partner for software solutions.

    Do you have an aversion to continuing with MS Office?

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussiephil View Post
    Hi Ross

    I wasn't going to reply but this is all useful in the long run i hope, I agree that the owner has the control and can't see others content.
    Note that all my quotes were also from official MS pages.

    It would seem that even MS can't agree with itself, from the AU pages we get this https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/micr...eading-4pb57ww

    You will still have the same users on your new Microsoft 365 Family subscription up to five other family members within your home, (unrelated) roommates or even remote family members
    You can share Microsoft 365 Family with 5 other people in your household, for a total of 6 users. Microsoft 365 Personal can be used by one person.
    If you have an active Microsoft 365 Family subscription, you can share it with up to five members of your household. Each household member you share your subscription with can install Microsoft 365 on all their devices and sign in to five devices at the same time.

    -------------------
    Subtle differences between countries maybe as your support pages is for the US
    Thanks Phil,

    I agree, its useful discussion & hopefully others can benefit.

    Yes - there is sometimes a disconnect between licensing, marketing and technical departments in many tech companies. I think you will find that MS are being deliberately obtuse here. Having worked with them for decades, they often use these "grey areas" to increase their market share for particular product segments. The balance in this case is to not make things so attractive that they loose small business customers to consumer products; but at the same time they want as many consumers as possible, particularly on subscription services. If it becomes a significant issue they will tighten agreement wording.

    At the moment there is latitude in the agreement wording, so I don't think any issues would arise in the short term if people share a paid subscription with friends. Doing so builds the MS Account holder user base, and MS can try to upsell these people over time.

    Having said that, I'm not a lawyer & don't pretend to be offering legal advice. People will need to make their own assessment on what the agreements allow.

    The Family Plan is a bargain, even if you use it between family members only & forget friends. It should not be hard to find six people within a family that would use Office & the cloud services provided. Even with two people, its not a huge sum for each person.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    Hi Derek,

    Given the sensitive nature of your line of work, I would never trust Google Docs as a practice/patient management tool. From my post above: You need to be aware that you have handed Google rights to the content. From their terms of service. "... you give Google a worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through the Service..."

    They claim that they do not publicly display content indexed from Google Docs, but do not provide any assurances that this information is not used within their organisation. Based on terms of service, its likely that it is so used. And I'm not confident of their controls to prevent leaking data.

    Also, Google have a long history of introducing products and then discontinuing these at very short notice - I've had clients burnt from this. A great search engine, but I don't have any trust in them as a business partner for software solutions.

    Do you have an aversion to continuing with MS Office?
    Thanks Ross.

    This is the reason that I only use apps which work off-line, that is, reside on my hard drive. I do not store practice data in the Cloud, but rather use portable hard drives.

    I do assume - perhaps incorrectly or naively - that the data from Google Docs or Office 365 is kept on one's hard drive, and only the software is run on-line?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    Thanks Ross.

    This is the reason that I only use apps which work off-line, that is, reside on my hard drive. I do not store practice data in the Cloud, but rather use portable hard drives.

    I do assume - perhaps incorrectly or naively - that the data from Google Docs or Office 365 is kept on one's hard drive, and only the software is run on-line?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Hi Derek,

    Google Docs is Web browser ONLY software. It does have ability to edit documents off-line, but will always upload when it can. And do its thing sending data to Google. Also it's not a very competent suite of products in my opinion.

    Office 365 includes the full desktop suite of MS Office, the same as the boxed version, but kept more up to date. You choose where to store the data. It also has browser based apps if you choose to use these for collaboration. And has other features. Importantly, the license agreement does not hand data access or data ownership to Microsoft. Even if you did use the MS cloud storage, your data is secured.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossM View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Legitimate resellers will supply activation codes and these won't be "dodgy" .

    A mainstream business like Officeworks certainly won't be engaging in illegal activities, so if you purchase through them you will be fine.

    The old adage "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is" applies. The FleaBay sellers of very cheap Office codes, and web sites that are not main stream and have very low pricing, are likely to be using illegitimate codes. They can't resell legitimate licenses at a profit if the price is less that about 20% of the price you see from OfficeWorks, JB HiFi etc.
    I was given a code but you were if my memory serves me correctly adamant that I had bought a ripped off copy.

  14. #28
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    M$ have real people in their activation centre so if you suspect you have a dodgy code, just ring them up and ask them to check it. With luck, if it is illegitimate then they may offer you a discount on a legit code. I've found them surprisingly helpful in the past. Have the price of an Officeworks code handy so you have negotiation material

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I was given a code but you were if my memory serves me correctly adamant that I had bought a ripped off copy.
    OK - let me rephrase my statement above:

    Legitimate resellers will also supply activation codes however the codes supplied by legitimate resellers won't be "dodgy", unlike the codes supplied by the suspect low-cost web stores & ebay sellers.

    Its not the provision of a code, or even the provision of a code that works when you get it, that implies legitimacy. Its the fact that legitimate retailers have to buy from a Microsoft wholesaler and then re-sell at a mark up that makes them a profit. The discount they buy at is likely around 20% to full retail. Thus anyone selling these products at a steep discount should be viewed with deep suspicion. You should only buy from trusted sources (and this goes for any on-line purchase.)

    There is a sub-industry of people stealing codes (so no cost of supply) and then re-selling them, usually at very low prices to entice buyers. They also frequently re-sell the same code to many purchasers. A person may get lucky & find the supplied code work. In many cases the codes are discovered by Microsoft to have been compromised and then blocked down the track - in that case the software will cease to function. The stolen keys can come from a variety of places such as Enterprise customers, software developers, PC builders, academic institutions etc.

    I just had a look at the prior thread, and note that I supplied instructions on how to check the license types installed on a PC (assuming its Windows & not Mac):

    MS Office problem

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