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  1. #1
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    Default Question on external hard drive (wrt write speeds)

    I'm in the market for another external hard drive. I would prefer it to be USB-C or at least USB 3.1. C is great because you can plug it in any old way, and it it is the way of the (no doubt sort term) future.

    I really like SOlid State Drives for their reliability and write speed. I have a Samsung 256Gb which is 3 years old, and it's quick, small, and stays cool. I also have a Western Digital HDD which gets slightly warm, I can feel the vibrations, and it's not as quick to write to.

    So, looking around now brings up these choices:

    1. Samsung 860 EVO SSD 500Gb for $125 (free del) and transfer speed of 520Mb/s, 100x70x7mm, but then it goes on to say 6Gb/s "for client PCs" ¿Que?
    2. Samsung T5 SSD 500Gb for $135 + del and transfer speed of 540Mb/s, 74x57x10.5mm USB 3.1 Gen2 which looks like USB-C
    3. Samsung T5 SSD 1Tb for $269 (free del) and transfer speed of 540Mb/s, 74x57x10.5mm USB 3.1 Gen2 which looks like USB-C

    but then there is this:
    4. LaCie 4Tb STFD4000400 Porsche Design for $189 + del USB-C claiming 5Gb/s transfer rate. Ok, it's not SSD but it IS 4Tb or 8x the size and claiming speeds of 10x faster than the SSDs. Eh?

    I have since realised that #1 is an internal drive (look closer at the pics FF), which rules it out (but doesn't explain the speeds issue).

    What I am confused about is the claimed speeds of the LaCie. I have always thought that SSDs were significantly faster than HDDs, more reliable, quiter, cooler etc. The LaCie gets good reviews but also someone else says they're crap.

    Dimemsions and weight are not really an issue because it will sit on my desk for the vast majority of the time. OTOH, I like SSDs, and won't need 4Tb of storage for *some time to come*.

    What am I missing?
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  3. #2
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    Default Question on external hard drive (wrt write speeds)

    FF,

    6 Gb/s is the max speed for a SATA 3 interface.
    5 Gb/s is the max speed for a USB-C interface.

    Neither of those specifications refer to the disk speed.

    One thing to be aware of with respect to USB-C is that the specification does not require the cable to support fast speeds, so when you buy a cable, be sure that it specifically mentions that it is rated to full USB-C speeds.

    Kind regards,
    Lance

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    Default

    as Lance says, be careful with speeds - they won't indicate sustained performance of any drive.

    The Lacie says:
    5Gb/s (maximum theoretical bus speed)

    Also, you have to be careful of the B (or the b)

    (550MB/s Read, 520MB/s Write) (note the big B)
    SATA 6Gb/s SSD for Client PCs (note the little b)

    That's Bytes versus bits.


  5. #4
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    Thanks chaps. So if I have that right, 550MBs is 4400Mbs or 4.4Gbs. (8 * 550 = 4400)

    Would I be correct in thinking that SSDs still have a much faster write speed than HDDs? It seems awfully difficult to find out what the write speeds are for these things, whereas when buying a Micro-SD it is always stated (I guess that's a must for Vid cameras etc but you see my point...).

    My previous Samsung SSD came with a very solid looking short flat cable which is USB 3.0 to Micro-B (the port on the drive is Micro-). Looks like this Lightning cable but is only 100mm long, flat, stiff and 9mm wide. I presume they still come with a suitable cable.

    What would you buy? Size for the future or speed and safety for now? Are LaCie well regarded?
    More info - in the first instance I'll be using this for Music files. These are flac, and quite often very high resolution (where a single track can be 500mB if it is in 6 channels). That means the write speeds are super critical, but faster is always better. Reliability is critical of course. Furthermore, as folder sizes get bigger I tend to re-purpose my external drives, and they may end up being used for backups (which is what the current Samsung SSD is for). I like to keep a WindowsImageBackup too (not that I'd know what to do with it or when to use it ).

    It may be that another Western Digital HDD is appropriate - slower, cheaper, massive.
    In My Passport style:
    1TB is $80 free del
    2TB is $119 free del
    3TB is $135 + $10

    In Elements style: (I already have one of these in 1TB)
    1TB is $78 free del
    2TB is $97 + $10 (says it's electric-corded and LI Polymer battery required???)
    3TB is $112 free del (this seems like the sweet spot for size/price)
    4TB is $162 + $10

    They are all USB 3.0 which is enough for their lower write speeds, but I can't tell the difference between the two styles (apart from visuals). Is it just the management software (which I wouldn't use anyway)? ......(looks a little closer).......My Passport are metal casing (Elements are plastic), MP has a 3 year wty, can't see the wty fro Elements anywhere. Looks to me like the MP is for carting around (which I won't be doing).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Any of those drives will do what you're asking. Music (listening, not editing), and potentially archive/backup in future are at the bottom end of any HDD's capability. To my way of thinking you'd be wasting your money on a SSD.

    As for brand, I'd stick with the proven HDD (non-SDD) manufacturers such as Seagate, Western Digital etc. Of the options you posted, I would get the Elements option if you have no need for the extra software.

    Kind regards,
    Lance

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    That's pretty much where my thoughts drifted in the interim Lance. I reckon the 3TB for $112 delivered is the go. The 500GB SSD isn't big enough anyway.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Spinning disks are plenty fast enough for external storage.

    Their bang for buck cannot be beaten.

    The USB-C speed is almost irrelevant for this exercise. "USB 3.0 (also known as SuperSpeed USB) has a maximum bandwidth rate of 5 gbps (gigabits per second). That translates to 640 MBps (megabytes per second)—ten times faster than USB 2.0"

    Here is a fairly decent article (ignore the ridiculous and pretentious Apple fanboi zealotry*) How fast is USB 3.0 really? | Macworld


    * I loathe Apple fans. There is something seriously wrong with their brains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    Spinning disks are plenty fast enough for external storage. Their bang for buck cannot be beaten. Yep.

    The USB-C speed is almost irrelevant for this exercise. "USB 3.0 (also known as SuperSpeed USB) has a maximum bandwidth rate of 5 gbps (gigabits per second). That translates to 640 MBps (megabytes per second)—ten times faster than USB 2.0"
    Yeah sure - no point having USB-C if the disk write speed isn't up to it. The reason I'd be keen to have it as USB-C is for future proofing and reversibility rather than speed in this case, but the WD spinners will only come with USB 3.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel;2155653 (ignore the [I
    ridiculous and pretentious Apple fanboi zealotry[/I]*) How fast is USB 3.0 really? | Macworld

    * I loathe Apple fans. There is something seriously wrong with their brains.
    Not sure I'll be able to tolerate Fanbwa zealotry. Apple, and their appalling business practices, are the subject of much discussion around here (multi platform site). I point bloody blank refuse to give them any money, just so they can update the software to wear the device out quicker. Pack o' miserable sods.

    I will say though that Apple hardware feels like class - very well made.
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  10. #9
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    So fast forward 2½ months, and the WD Elements 3TB hard drive has done its job perfectly, but is now as full as a goog.

    Pricing changes all the time, and I have a choice of a WD 4TB Elements in the same style (i.e. powered off the USB 3.0 port) for ~$155 (and the passport style is more or less the same price)
    OR
    A desktop style WD Elements 6TB for $209 which comes with an AC adaptor (so runs off 240v GPO). Plugging into a GPO is no problem (I have the world's largest custom made power board at the back of my desk ) BUT the question is: when I shut down the puta, will the disk still spin if I don't turn the power point off? At the rate that I have chomped through storage lately, I think the 6TB (all in one piece) is a good idea.

    Bearing in mind the following:
    The WD Elements drives that I currently use have no spin-up time, so presumably they are always spinning. This is great for instant access when it hasn't been used for a while (say 15 minutes or whatever. FOr a few weeks I had a friend's Ironwolf drive here, and it was a PITA because it would go to rest after about 10 mins of inaction, and take probably 10 seconds to spin-up. I would not want a drive that did this, but of course I have no way of finding out if the WD Desktop version stays spinning or not. (the specs are useless - don't even properly specify which USB 3 version).

    So, the question is: what is the typical behaviour of an AC powered desktop external drive - does it stay spinning or go to rest, and will it still spin when the puta is powered down, but the drive is not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    So fast forward 2½ months, and the WD Elements 3TB hard drive has done its job perfectly, but is now as full as a goog.

    Pricing changes all the time, and I have a choice of a WD 4TB Elements in the same style (i.e. powered off the USB 3.0 port) for ~$155 (and the passport style is more or less the same price)
    OR
    A desktop style WD Elements 6TB for $209 which comes with an AC adaptor (so runs off 240v GPO). Plugging into a GPO is no problem (I have the world's largest custom made power board at the back of my desk ) BUT the question is: when I shut down the puta, will the disk still spin if I don't turn the power point off? At the rate that I have chomped through storage lately, I think the 6TB (all in one piece) is a good idea.

    Bearing in mind the following:
    The WD Elements drives that I currently use have no spin-up time, so presumably they are always spinning. This is great for instant access when it hasn't been used for a while (say 15 minutes or whatever. FOr a few weeks I had a friend's Ironwolf drive here, and it was a PITA because it would go to rest after about 10 mins of inaction, and take probably 10 seconds to spin-up. I would not want a drive that did this, but of course I have no way of finding out if the WD Desktop version stays spinning or not. (the specs are useless - don't even properly specify which USB 3 version).

    So, the question is: what is the typical behaviour of an AC powered desktop external drive - does it stay
    spinning or go to rest, and will it still spin when the puta is powered down, but the drive is not?
    Sadly there is no such thing as typical behaviour for desktop drives in general. WD drives have a utility that can control some sleep parameters. My recollection of an older WD Elements desktop drive I had was that it did sleep when the PC was off.

  12. #11
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    So today this WD Elements 6TB for $209 arrived. I have no info yet about the behaviour when it shuts down but what I do know is that the write speed is magnificent! Where I can get 40MBs writing to the 1TB and 3TB drives (USB powered, typical ext HDD) this one gets a whopping 150MBs!

    That's not just the initial cache writing speed - it's consistent over a 100+GB transfer. Fluctuates between 140-160MBs. Not quite as good as SSD to SSD (which I have seen go at a staggering 350MBs), but pretty damn good!
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  13. #12
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    So after a fair bit of use (stacks of copying), I can confirm that the max write speed of the WD Desktop 6TB is up around 140-160MBs, which is excellent. Of course, if the read speed of the disk that the copy is coming from is slower then that's the max write speed you can get. The WD Portable 3TB has a max read (and write) speed of 40MBs, but they are USB powered.

    I can also confirm that the Desktop version does have a spin-up time delay if it has been dormant for a while (about 4-5 seconds I think) - it took a while to work that out because it hasn't been dormant very much in the last few days


    All in all, I would thoroughly recommend the WD Desktop drives. The 6TB model yields 5.45TB of usable space, so at $209 + $20 delivery that comes in at around $42 per TB of usable space - pretty cheap. The Portable drives are also very good, as long as you only need 40MBs Read/write max speeds (generally fine for backups).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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