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  1. #16
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    I'm not going buy into this debate in a big way, but some things I can't let pass without comment. For the record, I'm not, nor have I ever been, a cyclist.

    Cyclists are part of our community and will continue to be. And while they remain vulnerable to injury and death on our roads, they need to be protected. A rule such as this seems very sensible to me with very little downside for everyone else.

    Bike registration seems to me like a crazy idea. I've got a 5 year old with a bike - should that be registered? And I've got a bike, but I hardly use it. Should that be registered? We are the second fattest country int he world - surely we should be doing more to encourage exercise, not making it harder.

    And finally, Doug, I sympathise with the frustration of getting a speeding ticket. I remember getting one from a speeding camera for doing 50 in an area marked as 40 for roadworks. Never ind that there wasn't a workman for 5ks and apart from the odd witches hat, not a single sign of roadworks for ages. Frustrating.

    But to suggest that speed cameras don't work is crazy. I don't know the stats but I've clearly noticed a significant slowdown of speeds here in Canberra and on a recent driving trip to Brisbane. I remember 3 kids getting killed in a crash caused by excess speed on Hindmarsh drive in Canberra maybe a decade ago. A point to point camera now means that everyone does 80, not 180, on that road now.

    Trav
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shed View Post
    .... I would also like to see some laws tell cyclists what they can and can't do on our roads. (we could even make it compulsory for cyclists to obey traffic light - now there is a novel idea!). To back up those laws and make sure that both police and ordinary citizens can report misbehaving cyclists (yes there are some believe it or not!) I would like to see number plates introduced for bicycles, as well as a registration fee to pay for building and maintaing bike paths. This registration fee would include the TAC charge that motorists pay.
    What isn't clear about the laws that cyclists need to obey? Yes some cyclists do not follow the laws, but you would have rocks in your head if you thought every car driver obeyed every law.

    Do you really think that number plates on bikes will do anything to assist in enforcing laws for cyclists? There are plenty of examples on cycling forums that have presented clear video evidence of dangerous driving by motorists to the police, endangering a life, and they are simply flogged off with no action taken. This has forced cyclists to take the evidence further up the chain to have action taken and even then it is just a throw away warning to the motorist in most cases. A motorist rocking up to a police station with a rego number of a bike, or even video evidence, running a light will not be taken seriously by police.

    Please don't get me wrong. As a cycling commuter to work it drives me crazy seeing how some cyclists behave, although I see my fair share of motorists that I also shake my head at. My attitude on the bike is to behave as I would if I was in a car. I did laugh the other day (whilst in my car) when I watched a cyclist run through a red light, shortly after there was another, and then just following that, a police car that pulled the second one over. It really is up to the police to enforce the road rules as they happen. I am sure that whenever you pass a police car that has pulled somebody over it makes you slow down a little - unfortunately there are not enough police on the road in a highly visible presence enforcing the laws - too often it is left to a speed camera to deliver the wake up a few weeks later (please note I have never had a speeding fine!).

    Registration fees - where does it stop. Do children need to be registered? Is the aim to push cyclists back into cars? Is it a good idea to discourage alternative forms of transport (not only good for the environment but also the waist line). Again as a commuter I can clearly see evidence each morning of the benefit of having more people cycling to and from work especially. It would be good to have a drive to work day once year to show the impact on traffic of each bicycle commuter sitting alone in their car instead of taking up much less room on the road.
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  4. #18
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    Well it appears I have stirred up some angst by suggesting that cyclists should no longer be anonymous on our roads

    Just imagine if 6.9% of motorists ran a red light every day, we would wipe out Australia's deficit in a month

    Anyway, I decided to ask Mr Google about bike regsitration and one of the first hits that came up was this one, guess I am not alone

    Cycle safe: Bike registration mooted as way to rein in riders - National - NZ Herald News

  5. #19
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    Personally I couldn't care less if I needed to have a number plate of not when on the bike ..... but I do question the use. As far as I am aware there is nowhere in the world that registers bicycles (happy to be proven wrong).

    The question still remains - apart from making motorists feel all warm and fuzzy that they can identify a cyclist what is the purpose? It is quite clear that police don't care if they are provided registration details or even video evidence of an unlawful action on the road - so why would a rego number make this any different.

    "Just imagine if 6.9% of motorists ran a red light every day, we would wipe out Australia's deficit in a month" - if the police are around to enforce the issue then they can capture motorists and cyclists - it will do very little to Australia's deficit if you turn up at your local police station with your own evidence.

    Obviously this tread has moved more than 1m from the original intent and is basically turning into the quality of arguments seen in the trashy News Limited online comments as soon as an article about cycling is posted.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shed View Post
    Anyway, I decided to ask Mr Google about bike regsitration and one of the first hits that came up was this one, guess I am not alone

    Cycle safe: Bike registration mooted as way to rein in riders - National - NZ Herald News
    Did you read the article?

    A bus union leader is leading calls for a bicycle registration scheme to discourage riders from running red lights and pedestrian crossings. But the push has failed to win support from the Automobile Association and Government
    A bus union leader wants it but an Automobile Association and the Government didn't support it.
    It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

  7. #21
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    Yes corbs, I did, my only comment was that I wasn't alone in seeing some merit in it.

    I certainly see some merit in bikes beig identifiable, I am firmly convinced that the minority of cyclists that misbehave on our roads do so partly because they know they are anonymous.

    Sir Stinkalot, I don't think this has moved that far from the original intent of the thread, being improving cyclist safety - which has to be a 2 way street. Cyclists also have to take responsibility for their behaviour on our roads, not just put the onus on the motorist to ensure that a cyclist is safe.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot View Post
    ... As far as I am aware there is nowhere in the world that registers bicycles (happy to be proven wrong)....
    SS, I think there are a couple of Euro countries that have a bike registration schemes but none are used to identify cyclists on the road. They're all used to identify stolen bikes.
    It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot View Post
    It would be good to have a drive to work day once year to show the impact on traffic of each bicycle commuter sitting alone in their car instead of taking up much less room on the road.
    I really dont think it would make a real lot of difference on thee day. By comparison, there are really not a lot of them. It might look like a lot on the bikeways sometimes but as a percentage of the total number of vehicles it really isnt that high. Considering that they pay no registration or excise on fuel like other road users there seems to be a disproportionate amount of public funding spent on infrastructure just for them. However I do not mind this at all. In fact I regard it as money well spent. There are many minority groups who are either over-funded or underfunded. Some I agree with some I dont.

    I used to enjoy cycling to work when I was in the Army in Canberra. It kept me fit, which was a requirement of the service, by utilizing the time I could have been commuting in a car plus a little bit more. It was good regular exercise and I used to have a number of routes to choose either on the roads or the bikeways either side of the lake depending on how much time I had or the prevailing weather conditions.

    If I wanted a longer ride there were groups of cyclists who rode around Canberra in the early mornings that you could join up with and ride for a couple of hours at a fairly brisk pace if you wanted to. But the thing is, on Drive to Work Day, all these cyclists who are on the road for a couple of hours will get in their cars and drive there in 15 or 20 minutes and not take the scenic route. They will also keep up with the rest of the traffic.

    I think it is great that some people choose to ride. It is their choice. They gain heath benefits for sure and they also have a minor impact on the traffic congestion and their carbon footprint. But the rest of us dont owe them a living for doing it. We are already subsidizing them.

    But as to making the roads safer for cyclists and motorists, as I have already said, the laws are already there, and flaunted by and large by both sides, because our state governments are using our police forces to collect revenue to targets instead of making our roads safer. The wrong laws are being enforced.

    When police commissioners are not appointed by governments and answerable to them for fundraising but are elected by the community and judged by their ability to make the roads safer for all with no revenue raising targets then things may get better.

    Cheers

    Doug
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shed View Post
    I certainly see some merit in bikes beig identifiable, I am firmly convinced that the minority of cyclists that misbehave on our roads do so partly because they know they are anonymous.
    As a cycling commuter I put a call in for all pedestrians to wear name badges (I think registration would simply strip one of their identity). Far too often do I see pedestrians walking along the dedicated bicycle path section of the split pedestrian/bike lane. Whilst me reporting the names to the police may not do anything I am sure the name badges will make those pesky pedestrians think twice.

    Ok so that was a cheeky shot - but really misbehaving cyclists, like motorists will be more aware of their actions if laws are enforced on the spot. Again there is limited evidence of police acting on any evidence that they did not witness on the spot.

    Just out of interest this is one of the recommended articles from the New Zealand Herald that was linked to previously:
    Cycle safe: Seeing red - who's running the lights at danger spots - National - NZ Herald News

    Granted that there are still far too many cyclists running red lights it is also quite clear that even motorists with registration also do the wrong thing .
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  11. #25
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    I will try to bring this back on track... the original intention of this thread was to let people know how to support the campaign to legislate for minimum safe distances for drivers when passing cyclists. If you support this then please complete the petition and send it to the address at the bottom of the page. Also please use the link and send your local MP a pre-formatted email asking for their support.

    If you do not support safe passing distances please don't bother with the petition, don't send an email to your local MP and if you're driving past me please give me room. I will give you a nice big wave and a smile if you do.

    Stop on red.jpg
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    I really dont think it would make a real lot of difference on thee day. By comparison, there are really not a lot of them. It might look like a lot on the bikeways sometimes but as a percentage of the total number of vehicles it really isnt that high.
    I agree that there are some places that the impact will be felt and others not so much. Having previously spent many years travelling from Lara to Melbourne every day the number of commuting cyclists would be minimal.

    I now cycle through Adelaide CBD daily and as you would expect the proportion of cyclists is much greater. On Monday I took the car in to work as it was available and it was going to be hot. Despite it being a relatively light traffic day (with school holidays still on and many offices still closed) there was still the situation where it was not possible to cross a number of intersections despite the lights being green as the other side was already blocked with traffic. Whilst waiting in the traffic there were numerous cyclists going past in the bus/bike lane. If each of these were also in a car it would have made it even harder to cross intersections - and this is in Adelaide where traffic is relatively light.

    For the record it took longer to get home in the car than it does on the bike!
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot View Post
    Granted that there are still far too many cyclists running red lights it is also quite clear that even motorists with registration also do the wrong thing .
    Yes indeed, but the motorist in most cases gets photographed (remember that number plate?) and gets a nice little "Please pay" letter, and he gets some demerit points.

    Cyclists can do this ad infinitum and only get caught if there is a cop nearby that can be bothered to book him.

    Oh and on the point of there not being any countries that have a registration/number plate requirement for bicycles, if we used that argument then Australia wouldn't have compulsory bike helmet laws. Along with NZ it is the only country (as against state) that has this ridiculous law. The Netherlands with more cyclists than any other country in the world hasn't seen the need for such a stupid law (or bicycle number plates I have to say )
    Anyway, Queensland may see the light on this one. Sorry, I digress.

  14. #28
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    I perhaps so let this thread go and give some space to others ....... but

    I would think that red light cameras at traffic lights are the exception rather than the rule so the proportion of cyclists that would be caught would be minimal. Lights with cameras are also generally on dangerous or busy roads which would tend to further reduce the number of cyclists running the red in those situations. Whilst I think cyclists could trigger red lights, would the camera be of high enough resolution to read what would have to be a very small number plate to fit on a bike. Again I am against running red lights, but just trying to work out what benefit registration would have.

    Personally I don't mind compulsory helmets. Perhaps the Netherlands do not need the law as the motorists aren't as possessive of their bit of the road that they are convinced only gets made and maintained through registration fees that only they pay
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  15. #29
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    [QUOTE=corbs;1736758]I will try to bring this back on track... the original intention of this thread was to let people know how to support the campaign to legislate for minimum safe distances for drivers when passing cyclists. If you support this then please complete the petition and send it to the address at the bottom of the page. Also please use the link and send your local MP a pre-formatted email asking for their support.[QUOTE]

    Corbs, Mate... I support it in principal, but I see little point in supporting it in practice. People always flaunt the laws that arent enforced. And this would just be another one of them. For that matter they flaunt the laws that ARE enforced. Thats where the revenue comes from to keep our state governments in money to waste on stupid projects.

    If you really want to make a difference, get a petition going to separate law enforcement from state fund raising and concentrate on road safety instead.

    I will download it and sign it and pass it on to the local MP just in case it makes a difference, but if it is introduced it will be just another law that everyone ignores because the cops wont allocate resources to enforce it.

    Cheers

    Doug
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  16. #30
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    Default Cameras, I iterate

    There is no reasonable ground to negotiate with belligerent motorists.

    The only consideration is monetary: Fiscal, monertary and imprisonment.

    Cameras, both front and back, on every bike and sue every motorist, viciously, thoroughly and vexatiously.

    Bleed those who think it is their right to maim and kill. Take off them their houses, their pensions, their superannuation. Bleed them until they beg the magistrate for mercy. Bankrupt them, every one, every time.

    The arrogant assholes who think its ok to run down a cyclist? Pay over. Everything. All of it. Every scrap for the rest of your life. Every asset, every moment paying it back.

    Your arguments are moot in front of a jury.

    The tide is turning and you are in the wrong.

    Doubt me? Try running someone down with a camera.

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