Thread: GROUP BUY of HNT GORDON, COLEN CLENTON, MICHAEL CONNOR, VESPER TOOLS, HAROLD & SAXON

Re the 3mm Harold & Saxon plane irons...

I received my new iron in the mail today. I installed it really quickly into my Bailey #4 (Australian) a few minutes ago, but I haven't fiddled around fine tuning it yet.

Here are some photos:







The iron came sharp (cuts hair), flat & ready to go

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Buying Australian is sensible. Buying because it seems a bargain is not.

Edit: on reflection I shall remove my post as the last thing I intended was the impression of criticism. None was intended, but as one who is aware of what is on offer all over, it was simply to keep an eye out for my friends on the forum.

Derek,
It is unfortunate that you should feel that you were guilty of criticism. There is no doubt that this bulk buy is a good thing. However, even with the generous discounts, not everyone is in a position to purchase the goods on offer. No one should be made to feel guilty because this is the position they are in. LN, Lee Valley and many other tool makers produce quality items, which can fit the bill for those of us unable to buy the local product, even at reduced cost.

LGS

All very fair points Rob, and so discussion on brand comparisons can, and should, take place in the appropriate thread. This thread is about presenting the offers for consideration, and answering queries in relation to that.

Hi Brett,

You've given an approximate end date for this bulk buy as "about" the end of May, possibly with some short runs being sent to the suppliers. One of the problems that was quoted for one supplier with a long lead time was the need to stop production to process some short runs. Is this going to be a problem with regard to people waiting for deliveries already, or could it impact on the group order?
Also, there has been no indication of the minimum size of orders that each supplier needs to make a run viable. Could you provide that information at all?

LGS

Originally Posted by LGS

Hi Brett,

You've given an approximate end date for this bulk buy as "about" the end of May, possibly with some short runs being sent to the suppliers. One of the problems that was quoted for one supplier with a long lead time was the need to stop production to process some short runs. Is this going to be a problem with regard to people waiting for deliveries already, or could it impact on the group order?
Also, there has been no indication of the minimum size of orders that each supplier needs to make a run viable. Could you provide that information at all?

LGS

Again, it all depends upon the size of the orders for each supplier. When they decide to commence production is entirely up to them. I keep them up to date with the interest expressed so far (both in items included in their offerings and also in others of their products that are outside the offerings). If they decide to start production when the numbers get to a certain level then that is up to them, but of course I will be informed, as will the members.

By way of example, H&S have started some preparatory work, and I imagine that at this point that involves ordering some materials etc.

As far as any impact on other orders outside this GB is concerned - that is not my affair, and nor shall I be lodging enquiries about that. Any impact that it may or may not have is up to the suppliers to handle themselves. I really can't see the point of discussing that because if some other person/company put in a large order with one of the suppliers, then I don't think that the orderer would need to answer questions to the other unrelated people with orders submitted.

Minimum runs - the only tool with a minimum run stipulated has been the Plane Floats from HNT G. I have no reason whatsoever to think that any of the suppliers would say "sorry, not enough, deal's off".

Is there a product that you're after Rob?

I have a couple of questions about the chisels and if there is a thread about them ,then by all means point me to it

• in relation to the bench chisels on offer (or cabinet makers model if you prefer), what are the specific differences between these and the Ultimax range, aside from the shape of the handle and inclusion of the ferrule. i am assuming there is a difference because in a past post Bret, i think i read that you said these chisles offer some sort benefit to the maker in speed of production compared to the Ultimax? how so, details please. dont know is the answer, i am guessing but perhaps when you do?

• are the handles glued in or can they be tapped out?

• time frames for orders to be fulfilled; seems a very pertinent question, a number of ppl seem to ask and the only answer seems to be, depends on how many orders are made, the more the better, maybe...Is there some indication thats better than this? surely H&S (Trent) have some sort of idea on timeframes, ya know, well if i get 10 orders it might be 2 years, if i get 40 it might be 1 year, if get orders over X number then i will get to work on them and have them available for delivery 3-4 months, he must have some idea!

• if they happen to be exactly the same chisel as the Ultimax except the handles then is it possible the Ultimax can be ordered as well, or can they be ordered sans handles, just asking

• re mortice chisels, pig stickers (never really liked that nickname); are there any reviews/information on them anywhere (anyone)? do they have relieved sides (form a slight trapezoid) like the Ray Isles mortise chisels or are they simply ground parallel

• what is the significance of the aluminium ferrule? is that just chosen for looks (silver) or some other purpose? they seem to say its feature is because its light..any special reason that helps or is that just so its easier for me to lift out of the mortise hehe . its just a separate ferrule isnt it (in its own right, not joined to the steel), looks a tight fit in the pics is all, i am curious if there is any room for movement (lengthwise) which might be helpful due to a combination of shrinkage and mallet blows over the years

cheers
chippy

Gotta eat Chippy....come back to you later.

Brett,
There may have been some things I was interested in, but the extremely vague details of order and delivery preclude my ordering anything. No guarantee of firm order time, no guarantee of firm delivery time. It's feasible that I may not see an item for months if not years. That is not the way I like to do business.

Thanks anyway,

LGS

LGS

My personal experience with FenceFurniture's group buys are that he hustles them along.

However I would expect there to be some initial period while forum members anticipate what they want/can afford. This must take a little time. After all we are all guilty of the occasional procrastination.

The initial thread was posted to guage interest, but I would expect the buy to move along rapidly once it moves to the commitment stage.

In principle, this buy should be less complicated than say, the Colt Drills buy, which involved overseas negotiation and more involved shipping arrangements.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

I have a couple of questions about the chisels and if there is a thread about them ,then by all means point me to it

These are all relevant questions to this thread.

in relation to the bench chisels on offer (or cabinet makers model if you prefer), what are the specific differences between these and the Ultimax range, aside from the shape of the handle and inclusion of the ferrule. i am assuming there is a difference because in a past post Bret, i think i read that you said these chisles offer some sort benefit to the maker in speed of production compared to the Ultimax? how so, details please. dont know is the answer, i am guessing but perhaps when you do?

I'll have to get specific details from H&S, but my understanding at this point is that there is a difference in the way the sockets are manufactured - it makes no difference to the performance, only to the manufacture. More info tomorrow hopefully.

are the handles glued in or can they be tapped out?

More info tomorrow hopefully.

time frames for orders to be fulfilled; seems a very pertinent question, a number of ppl seem to ask and the only answer seems to be, depends on how many orders are made, the more the better, maybe...Is there some indication thats better than this? surely H&S (Trent) have some sort of idea on timeframes, ya know, well if i get 10 orders it might be 2 years, if i get 40 it might be 1 year, if get orders over X number then i will get to work on them and have them available for delivery 3-4 months, he must have some idea!

Well, specifically re H&S, there are exp.of.interest in about 50 bench chisels so far (I have not included Acco's possible interest, as he appears to have made some other arrangements). I will need to confirm this with H&S, but the indication that I have been given is that delivery time for 100 chisels would be about 3 months.

if they happen to be exactly the same chisel as the Ultimax except the handles then is it possible the Ultimax can be ordered as well, or can they be ordered sans handles, just asking

Trent says that in the hands of the user the two different chisels (those on offer and the Ultimax) will do exactly the same job in exactly the same way.

It may be possible to order them sans handles, if you wish to fit your own. I will enquire.

re mortice chisels, pig stickers (never really liked that nickname); are there any reviews/information on them anywhere (anyone)? do they have relieved sides (form a slight trapezoid) like the Ray Isles mortise chisels or are they simply ground parallel

Don't know about reviews (but there must be), and will enquire about the sides.

what is the significance of the aluminium ferrule? is that just chosen for looks (silver) or some other purpose? they seem to say its feature is because its light..any special reason that helps or is that just so its easier for me to lift out of the mortise hehe . its just a separate ferrule isnt it (in its own right, not joined to the steel), looks a tight fit in the pics is all, i am curious if there is any room for movement (lengthwise) which might be helpful due to a combination of shrinkage and mallet blows over the years

Will have to enquire.

Originally Posted by LGS

Brett,
There may have been some things I was interested in, but the extremely vague details of order and delivery preclude my ordering anything. No guarantee of firm order time, no guarantee of firm delivery time. It's feasible that I may not see an item for months if not years. That is not the way I like to do business.

Thanks anyway,

LGS

Buggered if I can see that "around the end of May" is extremely vague. Delivery will become more certain when the numbers are more certain, and I do not intend to keep repeating that. My experience with both the Colt GBs was that there were a rush of orders at the end, for whatever reason. The most common reason was "only just seen the thread - hope I'm not too late.

That is not the way I like to do business.

Group Buys are not for everybody. Absolute specifics on times, particularly at this early stage of a manufacturing GB, are simply not possible. It's not like we are getting stock off the shelf (and even then delivery times are hard to nail in the context of a GB).

In the following the word "you" is used generally, not to a specific person:

It must be said that in a GB, tolerance has to be given, regardless of whether it is manufacturing or off the shelf. People who cannot show a relevant amount of tolerance should not participate.

If you want it "tomorrow" or indeed by any particular date you should not participate.

If you want to hold someone to account for a (within reason) delay then you should not participate.

If you are not prepared to work with me as part of a group and be a bit flexible then you should not participate.

If you want some excellent tools at an equally excellent discount that you will see nowhere else then you probably SHOULD participate.

If you want to see what my reputation as GB organiser is like then you can look through the Colt Expressions of Interest thread (in announcements - it's not very far down the list). Of the surveys that I have had returned, I have been given a rating of 95%, and anything above 85% was considered excellent. If you want the proof I can provide it.

Better still, have just a small amount of faith, read Colt, and jump on board. Send a PM to some of the Colt or Liogier people and ask them....but only if you want to hear an excellent report.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Yup, they are.

I would like to order a complete set of the Harold & Saxon bench chisels, namely 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 1", 1 1/4".

Cheers,
Tony

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

HAROLD & SAXON CHISELS - a brand new range

30% Discount on the new bench chisel range.....$66.50 each

H&S (Trent Powrie) has just launched a new range of less expensive bevelled bench chisels. They still have the same HSS M2 Cryo trested steel as the Ultimax range, but the handles are slightly different in that they have a top ferrule.

This picture is not of the actual chisel, but is representative


I should have a picture of the real deal in about three weeks.

They will available in sizes 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 1" and 1 1/4" and will have Myall timber handles with a brass top ferrule. Myall is almost identical to Gidgee and Trent tells me that if you weren't told it was Myall then you would think it was Gidgee. Myall is a little more appropriate for a chisel handle.

These chisels will be going on his website for $95 each, and the Ultimax are $130 each so our price of $66.50 is HALF PRICE for what is essentially the same chisel as the Ultimax. Beat that if you can!

No discount for sets, as the prices are already set prices.

6 POCKET LEATHER CHISEL ROLLS $45.50 (normally $65 - pic to come)

Depending upon demand, Trent may extend his offer to some other chisels in his range, such as the mortice Chisels, so register your interest in this thread.

IMPORTANT:
The lead time on production of these chisels will be vastly improved, because they will (hopefully) have a nice long run to work on, so that they can get stuck into it. One of the major difficulties that they have had has been chopping and changing the production runs to cope with small orders.

To All,

I am one of the lucky ones that owns quite a few of Trent's wonderful chisels. I cannot stress more seriously just how great Trent's chisels are and anyone that uses one instantly realizes the difference between H&S and the rest. I wish that I too had the access that all of you have with being able to meet Trent and try out a chisel or two at one of your woodworking shows. However, as I live in the States I have only been able to drool until my own orders have shown up.

I love the idea of your group buy and I hope that it all works out as then maybe we will try the same over here. I have four sets of H&S chisels and they are all exemplary but the paring chisels are another step above. Please enjoy the two pictures.

Fred

That is a ridiculously amazing set of chisels there Fred. I am, literally, green with envy.

Brett - I am considering two of the Adria handsaws - either the dovetail and crosscut tenon, or the crosscut and rip tenon. But I have kinda big hands (you know what they say, big hands = ......big handles) and I've read mixed reports about whether the Adria handles are bigger or smaller than those of other saws. Can anyone comment on the relative size of the Adria handles?

Trav