Thread: Diy

My 2 cents.

1. Both you and the sparkie, but If you go down this path you need to research the correct ways and make sure everything is checked as you are just labouring for a tradesman. My son was sent off to do jobs as a sparkies apprentice without training and without checking, horrified me.

2. Give your thoughts but don't pass yourself off as an expert. As a sparkie you should know better.don't encourage anyone to do it.

3, 4 and 5 same as Peter.

Originally Posted by silentC

I'd be interested in hearing peoples views on the following scenarios:

1. You are not a qualified electrician or an apprentice to an electrician. You run your own wiring in your new house or extension and your sparky mate hooks it up to the board for you. Because he trusts you, he doesn't check your work, yet by connecting it he is certifing it. You have made a gross error and your house burns down as a result. Who is legally responsible?

2. You provide someone on the forum with the information they need to wire up a stove. They are not a licensed sparky and neither are you. Their wife is electrocuted whilst basting a roast chook. Who is responsible? Does it make any difference if you are a licensed sparky?

3. Same as scenario 2 except the advice is given by a Bunnings employee in a Bunnings store.

4. Would you feel personally responsible if someone was hurt or did some damage to their property after following advice you have given?

5. Do you feel it's OK to break a law if, in your opinion, it is a stupid one or it's a victimless crime?

I have my own answers to these questions but I'd like to hear yours.

If I break the law then I am responsible for living with the guilt if I agree with the law but I am always responsible for any outcomes legally whether or not I agree with the law.

Would I knowingly break a law? Of course I have, do and will.

In my informed or ignorant capacity if I consider the best course of action is to break the law bearing in mind the penalties and the chances of being caught I do.

For example, if I am out camping with a few of the boys and one of my mates sustains a life threatening injury, I am clearly over 0.05 would I drive him to hospital when nobody else is legally available? Of course I would. My fines, loss of licence or gaol are insignificant compared to someone's life. I would expect to cop the penalties if I was caught though.

Hopefully I wouldn't kill both of us on the way.

If I was over 0.05 and someone dared me to drive just to flaunt the law then I would not accept the dare that would be plain stupid.

That is an extreme example of course.

Giving advice to someone that involves breaking the law just so they save themselves a few miserable dollars I would shy away from giving that advice.

I lay down the rules at work about any of my staff giving seemingly harmless advice that is not legal. If people indicate to me that their intention is to break the law, then I inform them that it is illegal and that I would not support them if anything ever went wrong. If they decide to break the law with that advice, then they are on their own.

Most laws are to save heartache.

When used as revenue raisers you can see why people jack up. ie the speed cameras on downhill runs where the criuse control tends to overrun and you get done for a few km's over.

Just to add one more confusion to the story.

When I was a tech officer in electronics, working for a Gov dept. I was legally qualified to do any electrical wiring at work, inc 3 phase.

But I was not legally qualified to replace a power point at home.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Originally Posted by Benny

Both you and the sparkie, but If you go down this path you need to research the correct ways and make sure everything is checked as you are just labouring for a tradesman. My son was sent off to do jobs as a sparkies apprentice without training and without checking, horrified me.

I think in the eyes of the law, the sparky would be the one who got the boot up the backside. Your insurance company will be looking for someone to blame. If they decide it's you, your policy would probably be void. But the sparky is the certifier, so it would most likely be him.

The difference with an apprentice is that a formal arrangement is in place and his work is covered by the sparky's license and he is covered by his indemnity insurance, which definitely would not cover any work done by you.

In my informed or ignorant capacity if I consider the best course of action is to break the law bearing in mind the penalties and the chances of being caught I do.

This is a utilitarian approach with which I am quite comfortable in my own actions.

When it comes to the legalities and the paperwork there must be a scapegoat. How many times do you see a retiring tradesman wear the blame for a younger tradies mistake just to save his career.

How many parents wear a teenagers demerrit points from camera fines to keep them out of the shiet?

It happens all the time. It's implied by the word 'responsibility'. Insurance companies and courts are all about finding the person or persons responsible - insurance companies so they can extract their pound of flesh and courts so that they can impose punishment.

If someone wants to take the rap for you, then that is between you and your conscience. If you do it for someone else, I hope they are grateful. I would do it for members of family and certain friends, but the rest of you are on your own

Silent
Some questions:
Is it your opinion that the provision of any "unqualified" advice regarding electrical issues within the various forums be formally regulated. Who would police the issue and how do you believe the parameters should be set?

Would a provider of advice have to cite their contractors licence number and type (cat 1 to 4) at the end of their reply?

The forum moderators don't read every thread or reply prior to posting, do you expect them to police these issues. If we take this issue to the Nth degree, they may not be qualified to recognise what is actualy regulated - do we need an electrician to read every possible posting for possible breach? (OK thats getting a little silly but you see the issues that censorship can create).

Again as I indicated in a previous post, I work with a large number of professionly educated people who actually regulate the conditions that the electrican operates within yet these people are not "licensced". Would these peoples opinions be invalid were it provided?

If the forum was to become regulated for electrical issues then so too would it be regulated over plumbing work which has equal standing is the eyes of the law.

I'm not sure of the actual wording of the electricity act & regulation nor the act relating to plumbing in this matter, only its intent but are breachs in this issue dealt as a misdermeanor (sp) or are they a criminal breach. Lets face it, most people drive over the speed limit at one time or another whether it be a deliberate action or not.

Silent I'm not pushing any barrow or ideal but concerned as to where the forum may lead itself. I genuinely view censorship as abhorent - I have my own mind and shall make my own decisions.

I haven't suggested that any form of official censorship or moderation take place. It's a free country so long as we operate within the rules set down for this forum and as far as I recall there are no rules that expressly prohibit the blind leading the blind.

If anything, I would suggest that people self-moderate. If you are comfortable giving that sort of advice to people whom you have never met and having them implement it, then that is up to you.

However, I would suggest that you think a bit more about the consequences than you would when advising people on the best way to paint a ceiling. Really, that is my only point. The rest is up to your discretion.

Originally Posted by Markw

Is it your opinion that the provision of any "unqualified" advice regarding electrical issues within the various forums be formally regulated. Who would police the issue and how do you believe the parameters should be set?

No, it is not up to the Administrators to regulate these matters. It is up to the individuals to realise what they are posting.

Any advice on electrical matters, where it is connected to the electricity network, and plumbing matters, again where it is connected to the supply systems, can cause the poster to be in very deep problems if and when a serious accident occurs as a result of someone relying on that advice.

Even if that person, and he may not be the one originally asking the question but a lurker or casual visitor- remember they are public forums- did it incorrectly from what was posted.

Hence I refrain from posting any reply on electrical or plumbing questions even though I often know what to do. Similarly on other subjects where you need to hold a licence or be registered to give advice, like investments etc.

This is not censorship but being prudent.


Peter.

Any advice on ... plumbing matters, again where it is connected to the supply systems

Technically, it doesn't even matter if they are not. We have neither town water nor sewerage and yet our on-site sewerage system had to be certified by a licensed plumber as do our gas, water supply and drainage pipeworks.

Originally Posted by Sturdee

No, it is not up to the Administrators to regulate these matters. It is up to the individuals to realise what they are posting.

Any advice on electrical matters, where it is connected to the electricity network, and plumbing matters, again where it is connected to the supply systems, can cause the poster to be in very deep problems if and when a serious accident occurs as a result of someone relying on that advice.

Even if that person, and he may not be the one originally asking the question but a lurker or casual visitor- remember they are public forums- did it incorrectly from what was posted.

Hence I refrain from posting any reply on electrical or plumbing questions even though I often know what to do. Similarly on other subjects where you need to hold a licence or be registered to give advice, like investments etc.

This is not censorship but being prudent.


Peter.

Couldn't agree more Pete. I do some things in my workshop that I would never advise others to do. I couldn't live with myself if someone was seriously (or not) injured or killed as a result of my unqualified advice. Listen to me and end up like this.. Greenie heading your way.
Cheers

Shedhand
I hope that is NOT your hands.
Looks like some one was using an unguarded press:confused:

I'm glad we don't talk about cars. Again a licensed issue and yes I am qualified from mopeds to Kenworths to 30 tonne excavators. If I fail to tell them to tighten the wheel nuts in a diagonal sequence then the wheel comes off and kills someone I will be held responsible.

Stange in this situation the laws are specific, it is the person performing the work not the provider of advice whether through ommission or incorrect advice who is responsible.