Thread: Miners Free

No. Three blokes set of in a small dingy unprepared and get into strife. They were very fortunate to be found. I dont know the full story but it appears stupidity being so unprepared contributed. Not knowing if they were going to be found and dehydration was their greatest fear and problem. The doctor said apart from dehydration they should be fine. You carnt compare the two. After hearing what what those miners went through last night, it was the most increadable story of survival. Its impossible to comprehend it when you think they were seriously prepared to cut their own leg off as a measure of survival. makes you think just how amazing their mental and physical courage was. Good luck to them.

(did those three blokes set of knowing their was a cyclone immanent? )

I dont think that just because you are willing to cut your own leg off alone makes your story any more special. They were lucky in there own right, it wasnt there time to die. Every one of us in a similar situation would do any thing to survive, even cut your own limb off. Look at that bloke in america who hung by his arm up a cliff for a few days then cut it off, climbed down and drove to get help. Its the old survival instincts, its amazing what you will do to survive. Yes there story is miraculous and great, but they are survivors, the rescurers deserve more, did anyone see 60 minutes, the story of the bloke who was using the low impact explosives, that was interesting. The story of stuart diver is another one, injured minus 0 conditions dead wife next to you, now he was awesome.

Funny as one who actually goes down the hole everyday to work two weeks on one off... I find it increadible the gullibility of the human animal

Firstly... I will be candid and say I believe it was initially meant as a Union organised "stunt" to get the company to fix the mine... it had a history of issues that hadnt been addressed... sadly it went assup with Larrys death that wasnt meant to happen... I believe it was intended to get a couple of blokes down the hole block the area off get the publicity machine working and the bosses will come to the table all out nice and easy at the same time bringing to the publics mind many underground mines issues... Larry was the fly in the ointment so to speak he wasnt meant to die down there... bad luck? probably... The others from Todd and Brent to the Union bloke and the Mine Manager milked it from there on for all it was worth... and did a bloody brilliant job!

Secondly... I will also say I nor any of the underground miners that I know (of which I know quite a substantial number) beleive they were actually "buried alive" for 14 days or even 12 or even 10 or even 5 for that matter!... okay lets look at this for a tic... two fairly big burley fellas go down the hole and get trapped in a tiny area of what 1.5mtrs x 1.5mtrs x 1mtr high... surrounded by rock... in the pitch black and here Im not talking just dark but absolutely NO light whatever not even a slight residue of light like you get on a "pitch black" night down there there is ABSOLUTELY NO LIGHT WHATEVER (other than the lights you work with the cap lamps and the headlamps of the vehicle)... so okay first thing your trained to do in an emergency underground is... put your life preserver on! thats the little box that miners all over the world carry on their side at all times underground its the closest thing to survival you have down there so they put that on... it lasts in a relaxed not paniced mode for 100-120 minutes thats it... so thats stuffed before the first days done... so lights... they both wear the cap lamp which if fully charged will last on low beam for about 24 hours... so given tehres two of them and theyre thinking clearly they turn on off and use the other for a short period at a time only... thus they could feasibly have light for short periods over a few days... then nothing total blackness... now this would mean that these two blokes were in total solitary confinement even with their mate next to them they cant see them its only a voice in the black after a time... are you hearing the word madness here? Which is why torture and solitary confinement are frowned on around the world it leads to madness in a short time frame

Thirdly... they were fairly burly fellas when they went down they sure as hell were still burly fellas when they came up!!... being stuck underground with no way of getting food for what? 4 - 5 days? then only a couple of samiches these blokes would have lost an amazing amount of body weight

Fourthly... If they were trapped in such a confined space as they initial said they were (seems it changed somewhat with the extention of time eh) how do two fairly burley blokes move their limbs to excersize which they would need to do to avoid muscle atrophy... ooh thats right Todd or was it Brant I never can remember but one of them limps occasionally doesnt he

Fifthly... The ######## of cutting their own legs off... what a crock of crap... I mean here they were talking about cutting their LEG of with a friggin 1/2in blade of a bloody stanley knife??!! ######## quite aside from the serious pain what of blood loss do these two blokes know where the veins and major arteries are in their legs? on small slice and the blood loss would mean pretty quick death bleading out all over their mate... in the black feeling wet hot gushing blood pouring over you from your mate next to you... can anyone hear that madness word yet?... While your mates right next to you breathing talking supporting and encouraging you are not going to place the tiny blade of a friggin stanley knife into an unknown part of your leg and slice... then slice again and again and again and again and again! you would a) pass out from the pain b) pass out from the blood loss c) puke your guts up d) stop due to the pain and blood loss... but hey it makes great headlines eh

Six... The damned tags! That as an underground miner drives me nuts... Its a standing rule with underground that the shotfirers DONT go down to blow the hole IF there are ANY tags on the board!! NEVER!!!... regardless of what or how much explosives they are using or how long theyve been doing it or how expert they are THEY DONT go down to blow unless EVERY TAG IS OFF THE BOARD and every miner accounted for... so how come they are saying the shotfirers were blowing next to them? BULLBLOODY####!

Finally... one of the greatest dangers underground weather due to rockfall blasting or whatever is gas... 5 deadly gasses are released when that happens some are able to be smelt others have no smell... its the one true deep abiding "fear" underground miners have that the gas will get them and they wont even know it and its the single reason for the self preserver!... to give you the chance to survive long enough to get to a rescue chamber or fresh air base... so... these blokes were trapped under a rockfall caused by what? earth tremor? blasting? rock fall?... the gas... perhaps they were lucky? been known to happen I guess

See I find the whole thing a beatup political posturing instigated by the Union that in Larrys case went terribly fatally wrong but enabled a whole new more intense degree of urgency to be added... I work down the hole and much of what has been said about this is just so much crap and ########

Good luck to the pair of them... may they have a conscience and offer Larrys family at least as much financial reward from this as they themselves get... although I personally doubt that they will even consider Larrys family now that the attention is all theirs... the Yanks will fete and pamper them with all that Americans can do they will make ####loads of money from it and never go down the hole again... meanwhile their brothers go down everyday into mines still unsafe still without needed safety fixes put in place...

I personally believe these 2 blokes had the opportunity to have achieved so much for their brothers underground who risk their lives every day going down into mines such as Beaconsfield but will they? no theyre famous now they have money notoriety and have no need... will the unions achieve any real fixes in the underground mines of Tassie or Australia? no it will go away as it always does as the media finds other more tantalizing things to focus our attention on... so it goes

Todd and Brant will for a time enjoy and milk their moment of fame for all its worth then disappear from the public horizon... media interviews and attention only last so long even in the states then its books magazines movie perhaps and the speaking circut or obscurity

Maybe Im synical maybe I see things about this whole deal that stink to the high heavens maybe Im wrong... but then I work down the hole

On the other hand I wasnt there and I hope I never am there... I love working underground its different its challenging its a totally different world to anything anyone whos never been down knows or even dreams of... and there are INTRINSIC dangers associated with going down the hole but we accept them and go on... safety is often a joke a mouthed word thats rarely attended to... and now to me at least what could have been a brilliant opportunity to have so many underground safety issues addressed have been tossed to one side by the two blokes if we are to believe them were in the best possible position to force safety changes across our country... shame Todd and Brant

G'day Shane
Just read your post. I'm in no position to take you to task over what you say. I don't disagree with your sentiments anyway. I've worked AT a mine (iron ore) not underground. You guys are nuts for going down the hole to earn your living . But hey, what ever turns your spigot mate...
I have to say I'm a bit cynical about the beat-up too. WHile I'm a union man from the day I got my first job I believe these days they've lost the plot. If they (the Shortens of this world) were doing their jobs properly instead of building political credentials, miners (and all workers for that matter) wouldn't have to work in unsafe conditions.
Bill Shorten looked and sounded about as sombre as a cat with an endless supply of cream. His knowledge of the mining industry was shown to be abysmal. If he had concentrated on the mine safety issue he would have earned a lot more cred with me. The problem in Tas is that the mining companies self regulate and are very cosy with the governemnt appointed mine inspectors. For instance the CFMEU have been trying for years to get the government to appoint a properly credentialled soft rock mine inspector from within the NSW coal mining industry because the government inspectors here are only experienced in hard rock. Their efforts fall on deaf ears.
I've been deep down the Henty Gold Mine (Placer Dome) on the Tas west coast and as a former Union organiser and OH&S Officer I have to say the Henty Management leave nothing to chance (safety or environmental). If all mines operated like Henty the only deaths in mines would be from old age or tripping over your pay packets .
These guys quit their jobs before they were 'rescued' so in effect have turned their backs on their brothers who could have benefitted from the knowledge gained first hand experience these two had with less than satisfactory safety.
But good luck to them. I hope they enjoy the fishing and also remember Larry's wife and kids with some financial support. You keep your eyes open down that hole Shane.
Cheers
Mike

Really interesting Post Shane.
You do raise a few questions that I don't think the public will ever get answers for.
I've been down a gold mine somewhere in Vic as a tourist and a few hundred meters down we were told to shut our lamps off for 30 seconds to get a feel for what it would be like. Now I am not afraid of the dark but that scared the crap out of me and a few others were shreaking in discomfort.
Thanks for the thoughts!

It should be a pre-requisite of any new starter or even tourist... to be taken down some distance and away from stockpiles rescue chambers fresh airbases or even the mag where there are lights... and made to sit quietly with their lights on for a few ticks have a look around then made to turn them off

See while some people miners included think they know dark... what they know as dark is still infused with light its only down there where light cant reach at all that one truely comes face to face with dark... nothing... empty blackness... sometimes cloying blackness since you can still hear the mine around you the rock noises the dripping water the machines working elsewhere the person next you breathing... but your eyes are useless totally and utterly without sight at all

Thing is that its a real possibility that something could happen and you could be left in the dark down there so you have to be able to face it and control your instinct to fear... not always possible expecially if theirs rock falling or something else happening that you cannot see but only hear... that I think is where Im coming from here its maddening its terrifying its horrific to be stuck in an area in the dark blackness without light or the possiblity of light or water or food just the all encompassing dark the creaking and groaning of the rock around you... what does your mind instinctively do? yet you must control it you must control your mind... and times that by 2... it grows by an immense magnitude

And believe me it doesnt take very long for even experienced underground miners to loose it in those situations.

Good to hear Hentys a safe mine mate... most arent... most mine managers OH&S blokes shift bosses foremen and even miners themselves mouth the saftey word but do nothing to change it... this was a good opportunity gone begging