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19th June 2010, 06:06 PM #31
Thanks for the tip Mick.
Will check them out next time I need a knife.
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24th June 2010, 09:09 PM #32Member
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As much as I use this site for musing about woodwork, I use cooking for engineers for any culinary curiosity; it has a decent review/test of some knives along with sharpening articles etc:
Chef's Knives Rated - Equipment & Gear - Cooking For Engineers
After reading the test I was going to slowly build up a collection of globals to replace my vintage wooden handled mundials (cleavers), wilkinsons (dough/bread/filleting) and felix solingen chefs knife but since have started looking into japanese chef knifes after becoming so impressed with their saws...
I must say that the small mundial cleaver has been very reliable- great heavy weight for its compactness.
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7th December 2011, 08:51 AM #33New Member
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Mundial
Hey guys, if you are still trying to analyze the cutlery cracks, I think I might have some info for you. I was researching cutlery steel and remembered Mundial uses 3cr13 steel. I stumbled across a link that explains about cracks during quenching. Check this out, it could be the cause of the problem.
3Cr13 Stainless Steel be Prevent Quenching Cracks's Measure|Han Chao(WuXi) Special Steel Co,. Ltd
Oh, the only Mundial product I own is the Elegance series cleaver. It takes one strike to half a whole chicken and has never failed to cut through anything I've hit with it. It still has the original, very sharp, factory edge.
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6th November 2012, 05:37 AM #34GOLD MEMBER
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Those broken knives. What a load of baloney they are!
I'd try to get a real tang really welded on, some cutlery rivets
and some walnut and make my own knife scales.
I gave up trying to do every kitchen prep task with a single blade.
One cleaver for soft things (20 degrees included bevel) and a thicker bone
cleaver at 30 degrees.
I mention that because I believe that maintaining the edge is a skill worth learning.
In my kitchen, water stones are the way I go.
The harder the steel, the longer it takes but the edge has to have enough metal
behind it or you risk chipping.
I had a drawer full of the mystery brand butcher (6) & boning (8) knives.
I gave them all to GoodWill/Family Services.
Now, my SIL is giving me Porsche knives!
I think they're overpriced for their edge-holding ability.
But, they are nice to work with and the one piece design is not slippery, even when wet.
For the next few months, all I really need is a Inuit Snow Knife.
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26th December 2012, 06:20 PM #35Novice
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Interesting thread.
Generally speaking, Victorinox offers the best knife for the money. They are not the best by any means, bot for the average kitchen knife user they are fine. Mundial is not comparable in quality - forged or not (most Victorinox is stamped).
Theoretically, forged is better than stamped, but there are many other attributes that count in knife quality. Type of steel(s), design, tempering process, etc.
Ask your butcher what brand he uses. Typically they use Victorinox (Switzerland), Frost (Sweden), Dexter Russell (USA), F. Dick (Germany, also the premier manufacturer of "sharpening" steels) and some no-name German products.
The best manufactured kitchen knives come from Japan (I like Kai). I think that Frost of Sweden is a near second.
Use a cleaver to cut bones. Good kitchen knives have a hard edge. They are cutters, not choppers. I saw a picture recently of a Bob Kramer Damascus chef's knife with a scallop in the edge caused by chopping a turkey bone. $15,000+ down the tubes.
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1st January 2013, 03:24 AM #36GOLD MEMBER
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A friends SPFX company got a job that involved dropping several hundred 'cooks knives' onto a roadway point first from around 7 metres. About 1/3 of the knives broke near the bolster, and a bit less than a third lost the tip (not surprising). Interestingly about 1/3 of the knives survived the drop undamaged. He got to keep the broken knives and he reground the ones with a broken tip to give as presents to family & friends (the really broken ones went to the scrap dealers).
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1st January 2013, 10:55 AM #37Novice
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Pretty extreme test.... which proves? From a practical standpoint - nothing. I don't own any ceramic knives, but I understand that if you drop one, especially on a tile floor, it's a goner. "Kitchen" knives are made from such a variety of steels for such a variety of purposes, it's hardly surprising that many failed at the weak point.
Back to the original question - Excellent of Rubbish? I'll vote for rubbish.
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8th January 2013, 08:27 AM #38
I wonder if some you guys were just unlucky or if i was lucky?
I bought some Mundials about 20 yr ago, 2 x 10" Chef, boning and utility and they are still going strong.
I even took a chip out of my caeser stone bench with one of the Chefs without damage. But i also have never dropped them either.
Maybe the quality has gone down hill since i purchased mine (most likely) but they have held up well with sharpening on a stone every month or so and steeled every time they are used (before and after).
I also have a few CS japanese knives that i picked up in Kyoto - great edge - but they always need sharpening/finishing ( only on a 2k or 8k stone) and you have to keep wiping them constantly or they colour up.
( I always wondered why the chefs in the Iron Chef kept wiping the knife each time they used it - guess i found out.)
If i was buying a knife today - for general purpose and value - Victorinox.
If i was buying for me - maybe a holiday back to to JapanCan you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can? -- Sun Tzu
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10th January 2013, 04:23 PM #39Hewer of wood
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Agree that a drop-test is not of much relevance to domestic users. I don't buy a brand with that in mind.
We have a bunch of Mundials, along with Wusthofs and Japanese knives and I have no complaint. Quality = fitness for purpose. The Mundial flex blade boning knife is a gem (but a sod to sharpen). My partner can bone a whole duck with it, leaving the body in tact for stuffing and roasting. I use it to skin and joint chicken Marylands.
Maybe the older Mundials were better. Dunno. Do know that steel batches can vary, and that heat-treating is more of an art than a science, so YMMV.Cheers, Ern
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10th January 2013, 07:40 PM #40
This thread is still going ............. I started this ..can't remember when.
Anyhoo we must have drawn the short straw - the Mundials that we have, have been a big disappointment, and to replace the one that broke I bought a Sabattier. Now it was not only not stainless, it was extremely stain-ful - to the point of rusting on the bench in front of us while preparing the meal.
I know that this will cause howls of laughter or possible disdain, but we have replaced them with a truly excellent set of stainless knives branded Wiltshire. These were a Big-W special of $45 for a set of 5. Take and keep a very nice edge and are wife proof.
Hahaha
Cheers
SG.... some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them ........................D.H. Lawrence
https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/
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11th January 2013, 08:17 AM #41Hewer of wood
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Bingo SG.
I just bought a Wiltshire stay-sharp for a bungalow I sometimes stay in.
Horses for courses.Cheers, Ern
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25th March 2013, 08:05 PM #42Member
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If you appreciate a good knife, try SHUN big bucks but you won't be sorry, there awesome have 5 & love them all....
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26th March 2013, 01:12 PM #43Novice
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Shun (pronounced shoon) are excellent knives. They are made by Kai in Seki City, Japan - Japan's cutler center. Kai puts out a number of lines of cutlery under many names, including Kershaw (Portland, Oregon). Some of their knives are made there in Oregon. My wife uses a left-handed Shun Santoku which she really likes. I use a Kershaw 9900 series Santoku (among many others) which I like. It is their least expensive kitchen line. I doubt they are available in Australia. Kai Shun knives can be outrageously expensive. Shop around, particularly on line. They are made with a VG-10 core clad in multiple layers of another stainless steel. If you toss your knives into a drawer, put them in a dishwasher, etc., they aren't for you. These are at the pinnacle of manufactured cutting tools and will last for generations if they are properly cared for.
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17th June 2013, 04:28 PM #44Senior Member
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I have to agree Pops.
I bought an original Sabatier 14" knife in 1978 in the third year of my apprenticeship and it is the most comfortable knife I have ever used and still going strong. I use it for food prep in the kitchen and apart from a couple of no-name paring knives and a general purpose 9" knife I find I don't need anything else. I've used some of the other better known brands mentioned in this thread ( I've worked in a few commercial kitchens as a general kitchen hand/food prep/dishwasher etc over the years ) and find them OK but not stand-outs compared to my Sabatier. Yes, it is grey from use ( just like all my woodwork tools ) but I've never oiled it as all it takes is a simple wipe down with a dry cloth after a quick rinse.
Stewie
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