Image Stabilisation and Tripods

**Grumpy John** · 8th January 2013, 05:02 PM

Post #84 on this thread got me thinking about the fact that I never turn off the OS on my Sigma 17-70 lens. There are some that believe that you must turn off IS, OS, VR when your camera is mounted on a tripod.
For those of you going

:
IS is Canon's Image Stabilisation
OS is Sigma's Optical Stabilisation
VR is Nikon's Vibration Reduction

All do basically the same thing - help reduce blurry photo's at slow shutter speeds.
How do you know if your shutter speed is too slow I hear you ask?
It gets a bit technical now, so don't nod off on me

.
The slowest shutter speed for a given lens is the reciprocal of its focal length, huh I hear you say. For a 10mm lens the slowest speed is 1/10th sec, for a 50mm lens the slowest speed is 1/50th sec, for a 200mm lens the slowest speed is 1/200th sec I think you get the idea. These speeds are for hand held situations. The various lens manufacturers each have their own version of Image Stabilisation which allows you to get sharp photo's at slower shutter speeds (up to 4 stops slower) hand held.

WAKE UP!!!!!

4 stops???????
The pictures below were shot with a Sigma 17-70 lens set at 70mm at 1/10th sec. Without OS the slowest shutter speed that I could use and still get a sharp image would be 1/70th sec (1/80th sec on most cameras) 1 stop down from 1/80th is 1/40, another stop down is 1/20 and another stop down is 1/10 and so on.

Manual focus and manual settings were used for all pictures ISO 3200

Hand held OS off
hand held os off.jpg

Hand held OS on
hand held os on.jpg

Tripod mounted OS off
tripod os off.jpg

Tripod mounted OS on
tripod os on.jpg

The first image is definitely blurry, as for the others I can't tell them apart.

**swk** · 11th January 2013, 11:40 AM

Hi Grumpy J.
I can see a difference, ignore the spots before your eyes

Look between the spots, start on the LHS of the pix. Check out the fabric weave, 3 and 4 are definitely better than 2. 4 might be marginally better than 3. 1 is definitely the throw away. (I did that without first reading the criteria so could only have been prejudiced by their order.) Check yourself and see if you agree.

Regards
SWK

**Ironwood** · 11th January 2013, 01:05 PM

I have been told that the VR (I speak Nikon) will actually induce a vibration in a camera that is held solidly ie- tripod.
I havent experimented to test it out on my camera, I just know that VR works very well for handheld shots on my camera, especially with a longer lens.

I wont comment on your photos right now, as I am a work computer with a very mediocre monitor,

**Avery** · 11th January 2013, 03:26 PM

Great information Grumpy John.

The rule of reciprocals is really a loose guideline. With a bit of practice you can improve your technique and use longer lenses without VR at slower shutter speeds. I regularly use my very old Nikor 300mm at well below 1/300, but then i nearly always use manual focus too - I guess I just like the old ways sometimes.

All the new electronics in cameras are a great asset - great tools to have and use, but technique is still important.

here is an example. hand held 300mm no VR at 1/90th and manual focus.It's OK.

**Robson Valley** · 11th January 2013, 03:34 PM

Tell me. I am old and out of touch. What's the deal with the skinny, ultralight tripods that seem so fashionable these days? Smell like a liability to me. They must torque/twist like crazy in the least of a breeze.

I use the regular (wooden) surveyor's tripods with the spike feet and stirrups so I can jump on them and they are most certainly in the ground. I have 3 like that. #4 has ski pole basket cups for winter use to photograph biathlon, etc. So hang a full 4x5 on a rail on that. I enjoy it.
I have sold all my big tripods. Load rated for 300kg, meant to support satellite dishes. Some astronomy people got all hot and steamy about them.

**Grumpy John** · 11th January 2013, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by swk

Hi Grumpy J.
I can see a difference, ignore the spots before your eyes

Look between the spots, start on the LHS of the pix. Check out the fabric weave, 3 and 4 are definitely better than 2. 4 might be marginally better than 3. 1 is definitely the throw away. (I did that without first reading the criteria so could only have been prejudiced by their order.) Check yourself and see if you agree.

Regards
SWK

The fact that you have difficulty in separating 3 and 4 seems to prove that (at least with this particular lens) having OS engaged whilst the camera is fitted to a tripod makes no difference.

Given that image #1 is a dud, I have randomly renamed the other 3 images and reposted. Your verdict please.

18.jpg

73.jpg

192.jpg

**Grumpy John** · 11th January 2013, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Avery

Great information Grumpy John.

The rule of reciprocals is really a loose guideline. With a bit of practice you can improve your technique and use longer lenses without VR at slower shutter speeds. I regularly use my very old Nikor 300mm at well below 1/300, but then i nearly always use manual focus too - I guess I just like the old ways sometimes.

All the new electronics in cameras are a great asset - great tools to have and use, but technique is still important.

here is an example. hand held 300mm no VR at 1/90th and manual focus.It's OK.

Very impressive, 2 stops down from recommended. Is your camera full frame or cropped frame? If it is a cropped frame even more impressive as a 300mm lens is in effect a 450mm lens on a Nikon crop frame body. This means you were nearly 3 stops down

.

**Ironwood** · 11th January 2013, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Grumpy John

The fact that you have difficulty in separating 3 and 4 seems to prove that (at least with this particular lens) having OS engaged whilst the camera is fitted to a tripod makes no difference.

Given that image #1 is a dud, I have randomly renamed the other 3 images and reposted. Your verdict please.

My pick now that I am looking at my 27" iMac, is 3 - 1 - 2.

**Grumpy John** · 11th January 2013, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ironwood

My pick now that I am looking at my 27" iMac, is 3 - 1 - 2.

Sorry, should have been more specific.
Which one is:
Hand held with IS on?
Tripod mount with IS off?
Tripod mount with IS on?

**swk** · 11th January 2013, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Grumpy John

Given that image #1 is a dud, I have randomly renamed the other 3 images and reposted. Your verdict please.

First thing, all the cropped images looked better and all appear quite acceptable. My view, top and bottom indistinguishable and are the better ones. Middle one is "worst" of the three but very difficult to pick.

Regards
SWK

**Avery** · 11th January 2013, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Grumpy John

Very impressive, 2 stops down from recommended. Is your camera full frame or cropped frame? If it is a cropped frame even more impressive as a 300mm lens is in effect a 450mm lens on a Nikon crop frame body. This means you were nearly 3 stops down

.

The camera was my old Fujifilm S2 Pro. A truly magnificent beast in its day. Cropped frame, i forget the size.
If you check the EXIF data it says equivalent to 450mm full frame. You will also see that the photo was taken in 2006 when i was young and strong - I had to be to carry the spare batteries. Now I am old and decrepit , I rely more on technology, although, a few weeks ago I popped a fox between the eyes from over 100 meters so I can still control my breathing pretty well.

I still use that old 300mm lens just about every day. My favourite lens is a very old Nikkor macro , 60mm, totally manual everything, although at least the D7000 recognises the f-stop setting. With macro stuff you really do need a steady hand.

**FenceFurniture** · 11th January 2013, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by swk

Check out the fabric weave, 3 and 4 are definitely better than 2. 4 might be marginally better than 3.

It looks to me like they are all (except 1) of equal sharpness. What may be throwing you off is that 3,4 are slightly higher magnification than 2, hence the fabric weave is shown in slightly greater detail.

**FenceFurniture** · 11th January 2013, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Grumpy John

Given that image #1 is a dud, I have randomly renamed the other 3 images and reposted. Your verdict please.

3 sharpest, then 1, then 2.
I was looking at the white highlights in the red areas.

**Grumpy John** · 11th January 2013, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ironwood

My pick now that I am looking at my 27" iMac, is 3 - 1 - 2.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

3 sharpest, then 1, then 2.
I was looking at the white highlights in the red areas.

Originally Posted by Grumpy John

Sorry, should have been more specific.
Which one is:
Hand held with IS on?
Tripod mount with IS off?
Tripod mount with IS on?

Okay guys, which is which

?

**FenceFurniture** · 11th January 2013, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Grumpy John

Okay guys, which is which

?

1 is hand held OS on
The other two are tripod mounted.

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