Thread: CBN wheels for a Tormek.

No; but why would you want to run a CBN wheel at low speed? Or with a water trough?

Originally Posted by Old Croc

I found an old thread where the guys in this link
Knife Grinders
are selling CBN wheels to suit a Tormek grinder. Has anyone bought one from them and if so how is it?
Rgds,
Crocy.

Perhaps look on Sharpening -

Australian Blade Forums

I think you have to sign up before you post there.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

No; but why would you want to run a CBN wheel at low speed? Or with a water trough?

Many reasons Graeme,
I traded a stack of timber for a Tormek as its owner was trying to reshape tools on it and it was too slow for him despite him fitting a new SuperGrind wheel.
I have used it for over 20 years and I still love it. It came with all the jigs. Went to use it one day about 2 years ago and the wheel was in 3 pieces as he had used a black steel washer behind the wheel and it rusted and the expansion split the wheel. I glued it back together with superglue and have got another 2 years out of it, but it's cracking again.
So my options are,
Tormek SuperGrind @ $359,
Tormek Blackstone Silicon @ $400,
Tormek Diamond @ $575,
Knife Grinders CBN @ $395.
You asked why would I want to run a CBN at low speed? It's just another form of abrasive wheel and running it in water stops any airborne dust.
I was following a thread on a US forum a few years ago where several guys were suffering ill effects from the microscopic metal particles produced by high speed CBN grinding getting into their lungs. I tried to find the thread but not sure which forum it was in.
I don't like wasting money, still using my original Henry Taylor turning tools I bought in the 80ies because the Tormek removes so little metal to resharpen. I did some measurements once and a blunt to sharp bowl gouge lost only .003" or 76microns for metric people from its length.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Originally Posted by Old Croc

You asked why would I want to run a CBN at low speed? It's just another form of abrasive wheel and running it in water stops any airborne dust.
I was following a thread on a US forum a few years ago where several guys were suffering ill effects from the microscopic metal particles produced by high speed CBN grinding getting into their lungs.

Yes Crocy, IMO, this is one of the strongest points in favour of the slow speed wet grinders.

Higher speed grinders do definitely broadcast fine metal dust, which can cause respiratory problems, like hard metal lung disease. Those of us who have chosen to go with CBN/Diamond grinding wheels should take additional measures to control the airborne metal dust. Of course, same problem with dry Alox and carborundum wheels.

I have had a quick search in this forum to see if that topic has been already covered here, but couldn't find anything other than passing mention of it. It has been covered in our cousin forums (Dust Extraction and Metalwork, which some in this forum may not visit), but it would be good to have something on it here in the Sharpening forum, so I might start a separate thread on that when I get a moment.

Hi, I was wondering how people sharpening Japanese plane blades and particularly wide chisel blades on a Tormek8. At the moment I pretty much go through hand water stone process which is fine but slow. If your planing Aust hardwoods it’s not that hard to get tiny micro chips even if you steepen the cutting angle. I know there are dedicated automated water stones..Makita and a few other brands exist and then you jump a fair bit to the Naniwa automated water stones and really the list is large along with the price. I have heard you can use a Tormek with a fine or extra fine or whatever stone but holding the blade on the side of the wheel to avoid a hollow grind. Has anyone tried this or have a different method or have they simply imported one of the Makita type or similar to remove very fine chipping. I have been using Japanese chisels etc for quite a few decades and sharpening by hand is fine but really I’m over it. For the final edge sure by hand would be fine but to remove nicks or whatever how are others addressing it?
steven

I went to a sharpening demo at Japanese Tools in Sydney done by a Japanese man who I think came from Canberra but had spent many years building temples in Japan. He used Shapton powder on a steel plate, apply powder to the plate, add one drop of water and sharpen until the powder changed colour and the job was done. Doing that after a hollow grind seems a reasonable approach but he was not repairing a chisel just sharpening it.

Search: 5 results found for "Shapton Powder" | Japanese Tools Australia

Thanks for the reply Chris.

Originally Posted by stevenjd

Hi, I was wondering how people sharpening Japanese plane blades and particularly wide chisel blades

...

For the final edge sure by hand would be fine but to remove nicks or whatever how are others addressing it?

As I have a full speed bench grinder with CBN wheels for woodturning tools I use that. It does need a light hand with high carbon steel J-blades. A half speed bench grinder with CBN would be more forgiving.

Although not a traditional Japanese method, I have found no technical issue with having a concave ground bevel off an 8" diameter wheel... the concave shrinks with repeated hand sharpenings.

I have a power waterstone, like one of these... https://www.ebay.com/p/2255424154
It's OK for rehabbing kitchen knives, but I prefer to use the CBN bench grinder for rehabbing woodworking blades.

I was in Japan a bit before lockdown and was able to visit the workshop of a professional sharpener in Kyoto. I watched him sharpen a couple of knives, a couple of chisels and a thumping big "temple chisel" with about a 50mm blade and 750mm handle.

Equipment: Large wooden water trough about 1500 x 600 x 300 mm. (Similar to those old Huon pine laundry troughs that used to be ubiquitous in Tasmania.)
Electric water wheel approximately 500mm diameter and 150mm thick that appeared to be made of the same material as water stones. (This was set up in the trough.)
A couple of wooden "bench hooks" that stradled the trough.
Four or five water stones that lived on a shelf behind trough.

Technique:

1. Examined blade closely under a very strong light,
2. Ground blade on water wheel until wire appeared,
3. Test with finger, continue grinding until wire right across blade,
4. Put course water stone on "bench hook" and sharpen until water wheel abrasions disappear,
5. Put medium-course water stone on "bench hook" and sharpen until course stone abrasions disappear,
6. Repeat through all stones,
7. Lightly hone back of blade on finest stone,
8. Strop both sides of blade firmly on the "bench hook" with blade approximately 45 degrees from wood.

Sharpest blades that I have ever seen. And even the large "temple chisel" took less than 5 minutes. He seemed effortlessly fast.

Thanks for the feedbacks. It would be good the find an automated stone. So far all I have found is the makita etc then step up to the Naniwa water stoves which can cost quite a bit more. And I’m still looking at what else is around.

Originally Posted by stevenjd

Thanks for the feedbacks. It would be good the find an automated stone. So far all I have found is the makita etc then step up to the Naniwa water stoves which can cost quite a bit more. And I’m still looking at what else is around.

Here is an idea that I had for adapting my unused pottery wheel into a horizontal waterstone sharpener.

I purchased two waterstone wheels (I think a #1,000 and #6,000) like the following two, but without the metal backing plate.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

I was going to take the pottery wheelhead off and add an adaptor to suit the arbor size of the grinding wheels.

The advantage of using the pottery wheel for this is that it already had a water tray and also variable speed. Add a little aquarium water pump and you would have a continuous flow of water circulating over the stone.

I never got around to it doing this, but it still seems like a more economical way of having a water grinder given the relative frequency with which 2nd hand pottery wheels come up and even new ones are relatively cheap now...

800W Electric Pottery Wheel Ceramic Machine 25CM Work Clay Art Craft Bonus Kits | eBay

I would probably have added a 12mm bar to take any of aftermarket jigs.

https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...aight-edge-jig

I may still have those two unused waterstone wheels somewhere...??

Sounds like a great idea using a pottery with the Makita stones. The Naniwa water stone I referred to earlier are 180 and 300 I think in diameter. But the Makita at 200 diameter is a much cheaper price.
Steven

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Sharpest blades that I have ever seen. And even the large "temple chisel" took less than 5 minutes. He seemed effortlessly fast.

If you ignore the decades it took to get there, masters in any field do make difficult tasks look so quick and easy.

Got around to digging out the waterstone wheels I acquired 15 years ago but never got around to using. I thought I had two, but it turns out I have four, two each of #800 and #4,000.

IMG_20211221_121807.jpg

800 grit wheel labal.jpg

IMG_20211221_121338.jpg

4000 grit wheel label.jpg

The other detail I had forgotten is that they are only 150mm in diameter and not 200mm like on the Makita, so maybe not be so/as useful in a horizontal setup having less horizontal real estate to work on.

Interesting the brand and product name is the same as the J-Waterstones sold for use on the Tormek.

Waterstone for Tormek.jpg

Gulp...~*~@~ just saw the price of one of those.

The arbor on mine are 20mm and its 12mm on the Tormek, so mine must have been for a long forgotten machine, although a 20mm to 12mm bush would get it on a Tormek but to do what?

From what I can see #4,000 is the finest wheel that goes on the Tormek and that would give quite a nice polished edge for some uses. However, I wouldn't want to go from a 250mm grind to 150mm polishing wheel because of the difference in curvature, perhaps the other way finishing with a larger radius that gradually removes the concave from the smaller wheel, but not finish on the smaller wheel.

The other thought is to use the Tormek MB-100 Multi base to flat grind or polish on the side of the stone. They do that with CBN sided wheels, but the advantage of CBN is that it stays flat.

Sharpen a flat bevel with Tormek MB-100 on a diamond wheel | Part 9 | Tormek Live Sharpening Class - YouTube

If used in that same way, some sort of jig would be required to run a diamond point down the side of the waterstone to keep the side of the wheel flat.

Anyway, a bit academic as I don't own or intend getting a Tormek, but someone out there might have an interested idea of how they might be used, otherwise I have a good supply of quite wide #800 and #4k waterstones if I remove the metal arbors!