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  1. #61
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    Feb 2019
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    Upper Hutt, New Zealand
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    215

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    Thanks elanjacobs, just what I was looking for. Can't figure out why these didn't show when I first looked at Carbatec NZ
    Cheers
    Pete

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  3. #62
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    Mar 2010
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    US
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    Quote Originally Posted by CgT View Post
    I believe Paul Sellers uses the Trend stones. You could look on ebay.uk
    He does, but my understanding is that they are chinese-made stones and offered at a very high price. Their flatness spec is evasive (quoted by the inch or something like that), and the shavers who tried them on a shaving forum found they weren't flat.

    The plates sold as ultex or DMD are often not perfectly flat, either, but you get a two sided milled plate for about $20 USD. mild steel with electroplate diamonds, and the two that I've bought have held up fine. plastic backed DMT are flat (and expensive), eze lap are relatively flat (and now expensive), atoma are flat - pricey, too.

    For day to day sharpening, given the lack of longevity in quick cutting in diamond hones, the chinese milled plates are probably the best option.

    I'm sure that whatever ultex and dmd are, there are a million other plates coming out with them from chinese factories sold under various marques. If you see a milled steel plate, size about 8x3 in inches and prices around $25US, they're all actually decent other than minor flatness variations. Their durability is as good as anything else other than the specially arranged plates like atoma where the diamonds are placed into the electroplate in piles instead of individually.

  4. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    US
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    To give you an idea of the markup on these plates when they're chinese origin, or the rubber base you see in this listing, have a look.

    https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...7d9259adu4Q3ab

    I'm sure there is a seller selling this size in a smaller quantity at a slightly higher price.

    The rubber base shown in this listing is $20 from a US retailer. The price per plate (including the rubber base) for someone who would buy 50 is $10. I have two of these plates under different brands, they are excellent quality for the price. The out of flatness on them is some small number of thousandths (which is similar to western plates that aren't guaranteed flat - like the diasharp - those used to be hit or miss, I haven't contemplated buying one in a decade because of that). If a plate is 4 thousandths hollow, you will actually have trouble going from it to a flat stone flattening a new tool if you're looking for corner to corner mirror (kind of a waste of time). But for regular bevel sharpening, these are just what the doctor ordered and they will match lifetime with a dmt duosharp.

    I also have atoma and dmt, and eze lap products. it's the rebranded foreign plates that are sold for $100 that really get in the wrong part of my shorts.

    Spoken from experience actually buying and using all of these. The two plates I bought 8x3 were $19.99 from china including shipping. I bought them figuring I wanted the bases, and nobody had them free shipping in the US. Without the stones, the bases were cheaper themselves. The fact that the stones turned out to be good was icing on the cake.

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    932

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    Quote Originally Posted by CgT View Post
    I believe Paul Sellers uses the Trend stones. You could look on ebay.uk
    I'm pretty sure he uses Eze Lap diamond stones. I got a set of Amazon USA awhile back and they're pretty good. Flat and no issues with de-laminating diamonds.

  6. #65
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    Mar 2010
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    US
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    That's what he originally showed his method using (eze lap plates). Eze lap are slightly different than most of the common plates (as in, the DMD chinese generics and DMT and trend are all monocrystalline plates and they have a certain feel of dulling, whereas ezelap were originally a type of diamond that would fracture and feel sharp, but less deep cutting, at least to a point - now ezelap is a combination of both types of diamond - or was half a decade ago).

    The real appeal at the time that sellers started talking about ezelaps is that they were available in 8x3 format for $35 on amazon. That changed pretty quickly once they started to sell in volume on amazon. Whether that's ezelap figuring out that they could charge more, or amazon's dynamic pricing, I don't know, but an ezelap at $70 is a far different animal than one at $28 or $35 in terms of value.

    Still, they are good plates, but if they get marked up by an importer over there in aus as many american things do..that's just too bad, and opens the door for the milled imported plates to be a better value.

    Retail of any of the domestic stuff here varies a LOT. One knife supplier may sell the duosharp DMTs for $62 shipped with a base, and then the next (woodcraft comes to mind) supplier aimed at woodworkers will ask $107 for the same hone without a base, which retails for (sort of a joke for what it is) about $30-$35. I checked just now to see if this disparity still exists - and it does. Both websites say that they're drop shipping, so paying twice as much effectively from woodcraft to have DMT send you a hone, I think that's exercising PT Barnum's sayings. Elsewhere on woodcraft's site is the same stone with a base for $3 less (??) than the one without, but it's still no bargain - 68% higher, plus you get to pay for shipping.

    I've had two duos and two chinese milled double sided steel plates. The duos are slightly flatter (the plastic core DMTs hones are flat, the chinese milled plates can be out of it by several thousandths with some irregularities in small spots - nothing that threatens using them, but unsightly). Despite the flatness differences, the durability is similar. I think both types will have the current generation of woodworkers looking for something new once they settle in to their long term slower speed (which is better handled by just adjusting - find something else to do the coarse work on bevels - like crystolon or medium india stones).

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Brisbane
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    932

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    An FYI for anyone looking, EZElap is now stocked and on sale at Timbecon and the prices don't seem terrible at all.

  8. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Tasmania
    Age
    53
    Posts
    186

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    Hi all, great forum and great members. I really value this site and all your opinions. Long time lurker making my first post...

    I switched from water stones to DMT DiaSharp plates (3" x 8"). I picked mine up when in the States and got them on sale ~AU$200 for my set up - extra coarse (220), fine (600), extra fine (1200). I typically use the 220 to re-establish a bevel or repairing damaged edges or beginning flattening backs. But I reckon that 225 is now closer to 400 or so once broken in.

    I use the same method Paul Sellers uses, including the final 30 strokes on the 'Veritas green' charged strop.
    For me, I'll never go back to water stones. Although I do get a sharper edge with the water stones, for woodworking I barely notice the difference. If I am needing to work a particular tricky piece, I might go the 8000 water stone but I need to keep returning to that anyway - 8000 won't stay sharp for long.

    I switched to freehand sharpening after using a honing guide and now find my diamond plates cut faster and my slightly cambered bevel seems to last longer than when I used the guide. This method just worked for me straight away. I took a new cheapie 3/4" chisel to practise (one of those blue handled Irwins from Bunnings etc.), and could easily flatten the back and hone it to hair-shaving sharpness in about two minutes. It was a revelation for me.

    Definitely recommend the DMTs and the method Paul Sellers uses.

    Regards
    Adam

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkahestic View Post
    An FYI for anyone looking, EZElap is now stocked and on sale at Timbecon and the prices don't seem terrible at all.
    It's too bad shipping is so high from here to there. The duo sided stone that's $159 australian converts (at 1.39 aud per usd) to $86 in the states right now.

    It may still be worth shipping diamond stuff from here to there, but going back to my comments above - the plates from china are 70-90% as good as the domestically (US) made plates and are about 15-20% of the price.

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