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1st February 2008, 08:57 PM #1
D2 Steel: Sharpening, belt sander - belt comparison.
I received the zirconia belts today so I was finally able to compare the belts to find out which one cut faster and whether the investment is worth it.
The belt sander:
1.5hp
150mm wide belt
running at 1725 rpm (2700FPM)
The Belts:
Pic #1 - Zirconia 60 grit 'blue' belt ($15 new, special order through Alltools)
Pic #2 - Standard 60 grit 'brown' belt (40 minutes of previous use but in very good condition). General purpose use, can normally be used to sharpen tools. (Search for Derek Cohen and belt sander for some good posts)
The D2 Steel:
Pic #3 - Part of buy #1 organised by Thumbsucker. Two identical blades were used for the comparison, neither had been ground before. Each was 50mm x 100mm x 8mm.
The Comparison:
I decided that there was no need to grind for a long period to start with. If the results were not clear after 3 minutes then I would simply repeat at 10 minutes until a result was apparent.
Although the recommendation for the zirconia belts is to use heavier pressure I used the same pressure as I used for the standard belt to make measurement simpler. Later I did try heavier pressure, see below.
Pic #4 - The timing was done using a standard kitchen timer set for 3 minutes. I stopped the timer at 1 minute intervals (i.e. twice) to cool the blade. Even though it was not necessary for the standard belt I wanted to do it that way so it would be the same as the zirconia, since I suspected that would generate more heat.
Angle - I set the table at a 45 degree angle as I hoped it would make for a clearer photo.
The standard belt.
Pic #5 - The three minutes passed uneventfully, the blade was slid across the belt in a repeated fashion using moderate pressure, stopping twice to dip in water and cool it. At the end of the three minutes I measured the bevel. You can clearly see it is 3mm.
The zirconia belt:
The first thing I noticed with this belt was the straw coloured sparks that went all the way around the belt shroud and emerged at the top coming down towards my hands. I could also detect a 'coarser' feel to the blade running across the belt. Again, the blade was slid across the belt in a repeated fashion using moderate pressure, stopping twice to dip in water and cool it, except this time I needed to stop as I could feel the heat in my fingertips, stopping again at 2 minutes because I had to (close to being too hot this time but I wanted to use the same timings). At the end of the three minutes I measured the bevel. In pics 6 & 7 you can clearly see it is twice the size of the other bevel.
The result was decisive at 3 minutes so no further comparison was attempted. I'm sure a mathematically minded member could work out how much more metal was removed but I can tell you it was more than double.
Clear Winner.
The blue zirconia belt is, by far, the fastest stock removal abrasive I have used for these D2 blades. At $15 for the belt, it will save quite a few hours establishing bevels and re-sharpening my four blades. The items below are listed in order of effectiveness for abrading D2.- blue zirconia belt (1)
- standard brown belt
- aluminium oxide grinding wheel (to hollow grind)
- blue-max grinding wheel
- grey grinding wheel
- very coarse/coarse DMT diamond plate
- fine/ultra fine DMT diamond plate (form a fine bevel and flatten the back)
- shapton 5000 grit pro stone (hone the bevel)
- finer shaptons to polish the bevel as desired.
King Stones - I found they simply did not cut effectively on the hard D2. I 'think' the bond is too weak. (they are great for other steels though!)
Scary sharp (wet and dry paper). The blades are simply too hard. But! I have not tried it, this is supposition.
Recommended approach to sharpening a new D2 steel block:
Ideally, for new blade that needs a complete grind, my experience to date leads me to believe the following methods to be the best approach:- Use the blue zirconia (1) to establish the primary bevel at 25 degrees (for the same reasons given by Derek Cohen in a previous post).
- Next, the aluminium oxide grinding wheel (3) to hollow grind the bevel and make it easier to sharpen in future.
- The fine diamond plate (7) can be used to prepare the bevel for honing and to flatten the back. Note that members have already noticed the D2 steel (as supplied) needs to be "roughed-up" so the wedge can grip it. The top two thirds of the blade are sufficient for this and the diamond stones (6) or (7) will do a quick job of it.
- Finally the honing is best done with a Shapton Pro stone. I used a 5000 grit and got a mirror surface reasonably quickly. Use other Shapton higher grits if desired.
Caveat - please remember this comparison is specifically for the very hard D2 steel and the recommendations do not apply to softer steels. Furthermore, any of the other methods will work, just less efficiently (in my limited experience with D2). Use whatever you have, but if you can get hold of something with zirconia in it you should see a marked improvement.
Footnote. As mentioned at the start of the comparison, I used even pressure when grinding on both belts. Research into a specialist website found by BobL indicated you needed to use heavy pressure with zirconia to get it to cut effectively. I can vouch that THIS IS CORRECT. After the comparison I did a further grind for three minutes - see the last pic, #8. It really chewed into it, it also generated heat quickly and quenching was done in 25 second intervals.
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1st February 2008, 09:05 PM #2
What pictures?
Cliff.
If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.
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1st February 2008, 09:06 PM #3Cheers
DJ
ADMIN
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1st February 2008, 09:13 PM #4
Ta.
Cliff.
If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.
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1st February 2008, 09:19 PM #5
Looks like the zirconia is worth the extra bickies going by that testing Groggy
Cheers
DJ
ADMIN
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1st February 2008, 09:43 PM #6
The feel of cutting through the steel is different and the sparks indicate it is getting serious about removing metal (it made me jump initially, such a wuss ).
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1st February 2008, 10:05 PM #7
Good work, Greg.
The effectiveness of the zirconia abrasive is why I mentioned the angle grinder flap discs in this post in the Homemade Blade thread. Great stuff.
Cheers..................Sean
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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1st February 2008, 10:10 PM #8
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1st February 2008, 10:22 PM #9
Hi Greg
Well done!
I have used the Zirconia belts for some years but did not have any when time came to grind the D2 blades. Hence using standard belts - which simply do not last well. My gestimate is that a zirconia belt lasts about 4x as long.
The irony is that the zirconia belts are no more expensive than buying the standard belts from Carba-tec. I bought my zirconia belts from Abraflex in Bayswater, Perth. They deliver Minimum order of 2 belts and a $4.50 delivery charge in Perth.
I had a word with Philip Marcou (Marcou Planes) about D2 steel (he uses it in his planes). Philip loves the stuff and advises that it be honed with either diamond stones or diamond paste. He notes that it has 8x the abrasive resistance compared to O1 steel and 4x that of A2. He also stated that a 25 degree primary bevel is a good choice and will withstand chipping.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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1st February 2008, 10:30 PM #10
Thanks Greg.
- Wood Borer
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1st February 2008, 11:52 PM #11
Hi Groggy,
Nice sander there, very flash, and white. Thanks for the write up, Zirconia sounds the go for the hard steels then.
Derek. Did not know Philip Marcou used D2, or that any major plane maker used it. Good to have confirmation of its toughness at 25 deg.
Cheers
Pops
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2nd February 2008, 12:19 AM #12
Thank you for the information Groggy.
To the best of my knowledge, Philip Marcou started out using Veritas A2 blades, had a look again at Philip Marcou and he is using D2 in all but three planes, all of which are the bevel up kind, he must be having the D2 blades made much the same way that we did in batch 01 and 02.
Philip Marcou was not the first nor will he be the last. Ray Iles has been making D2 Replacement Plane Irons and chisels and so has Gramercy Tools.
It seems that high end plane makers like Philip Marcou's (D2) and Holtey's (S53) are are more willing to push the envelope in terms of tools steels then a main stream company like Veritas or Lie-Nielsen. As better abrasives become cheaper and more widely adopted it will not be long before Veritas or Lie-Nielsen start offering more abrasive resistant tools steels.
I have read allot of old tool mailing lists post's (from a long time ago) of guys whining about the "new" A2 steel those commercial tools maker were starting to use. The way the talked about A2 as it was bordering on an evil conspiracy. Why because their crummy oil stones they had made it very hard to sharpen those swanking new and horrible "tuff" A2 blades. How times have changed yet still remain the same.
As a note D2 is not "tuffer" or "harder" then O1 or A2, the correct term is more "abrasive wear resistant" as BobL has reminded me on many occasions.
Now thats nice to know,
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2nd February 2008, 12:22 AM #13
Thanks TS. You are a wealth of knowledge.
Cheers
Pops
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2nd February 2008, 12:31 AM #14.
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A very informative post Groggy. Thanks for posting.
Derek, Did you get your 10" white wheel yet? I got mine last week from Abrasiflex but could only a wheel with a 3" arbor and had to turn up a 3" bush and a set of 6" flanges - which I did last weekend, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet - too bloody hot in the shed.
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2nd February 2008, 03:41 AM #15
Thanks for the post Groggy - a very compelling analysis.
It suggests that it may well be worthwhile my getting a zirconia belt to try out on the WASP (and thanks also for pointing out that Terry of Piric also supplies these in sizes suitable for the WASP and other belt sanders at betweeen $6 and $12 a belt).Cheers
Jeremy
If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly
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