Thread: honing or waterstones

Originally Posted by Osage

Just one more quick question here goes if I was to buy a 1000# & 6000# stone what is the right flattening stone as I've noticed they also come in different grits ..
cheers Osage. .

If you are careful to share the wear as evenly as you can over the whole stone, they really do not need flattening very often.

Conversely, if you flatten them reasonably frequently you wont have to take much off each time.

I flatten my waterstones on a sheet of wet-and -dry stuck to a flat surface (melamine - its actually flatter than glass which is often recommended.

I move them in a circular motion on the wet-and-dry. Look at the surface of the stones often. When the whole surface is flat you can seebecause it will all be an even colour and texture. It usually only takes a few rubs in a very fine sheet of wet-and-dry. If it takes too long you left it too long to do.

Cheers

Doug

I use a 220 grit diamond plate. Not as cheap as wet and dry but they last a long time.

Great info guys thanks heaps much appreciated.
Cheers Osage. .

Ok what wet and dry would be used for 6k stone and how many times can the one sheet flatten a stone b4 its stuffed
cheers osage. .

Originally Posted by Osage

Ok what wet and dry would be used for 6k stone and how many times can the one sheet flatten a stone b4 its stuffed

I dressed all three of my stones that are currently in use just before Easter after a big sharpening session. I used 4000 grit (I think). I started with the finest grit stone and worked my way up through the coarser grits, rinsing the wet-and-dry between stones.

At the end I threw the 88 cent sheet of wet-and-dry in the bin. I probably could have rinsed it out and hung it on the line to dry and put it away for another day but it just did not seem worth the trouble.

Cheers

Doug

Cheers doug can you tell me where I can get 4000 paper or did u mean u started with your finest stone which is 4000 k

Originally Posted by Osage

Cheers doug can you tell me where I can get 4000 paper or did u mean u started with your finest stone which is 4000 k

4000 grit wet -and-dry from the big green shed

Cheers doug you've been a great help

I would have put money on it that the 4000k paper would have not even come close to flattening a stone! Ya learn something new every day!
Actually, I'm going to check out melamine...I would have lost the bet on that as well.

I have used the loose grit on glass that comes with the kit. I think the little jar said 60x or 90x.
I have also used 240/400 and 600 W&D sandpaper depending on how much material I needed to remove to flatten the stone.

Doug what type of melamine did you find was the best? Just the 3mm laminate or did you pick up some already bonded to MDF/chipboard?

Osage, I'm not sure if you have read this yet but here it goes anyway!
Waterstones are quite a flexable system and one of the ways to change the way they cut is the surface you put on them.
If you dress/flatten a 2000 grit stone with a coarse grit like 400, it will cut more aggressively.
If you dress a 2000 stone with a 2000 W&D, it will cut less aggressively.

Their is also slurry sharpening.. Some of the stones (generally the finer or harder stones) you will want to build up a mix of water and stone on the surface. A thiner slurry cuts faster that a dry paste like slurry.
Some stones are used constantly flushed with water.
You can let a stone clog up with smashed particles to slow it down. A clean under running water and a nylon pot scrubbing brush cleans out most of the gunk. Re dressing the surface will bring it back as new if needed.
They all have their uses and you can mix and match on the fly.

Cheers ben good info mate much appreciated. .

I use Gyprock sanding mesh sheets, about 4" x 15". They are cheap, don't load, last for ages, can be used wet or dry, and quick. I use a marble slab, only because I have it - thick, flat, rigid, cost nil. Scribble pencil lines across stone in all directions and flatten until lines gone. One point, you can only use a straight edge to check for flatness if the stone is dry. If wet there is an effect I have forgotten the name of (check my age) that attracts the moisture to the straight edge giving an appearance of flat (whether flat or not).

I will eventually get around to using a diamond plate to flatten oil stones, I have a few that are very hard (used with carving tools), and seem to resist flattening with anything else - including concrete paths.

Cheers
Peter

Originally Posted by Ben Dono

I would have put money on it that the 4000k paper would have not even come close to flattening a stone!

Hi Ben, If you let your stones wear a lot between flattenings I would not try 4000 grit either. For me it works because I would rather flatten them frequently and take a little off rather than flatten them when they become visibly uneven and take a lot off. I would rather do it before it becomes a big, tedious job and I actually think it makes the stones last longer.

Originally Posted by Ben Dono

Actually, I'm going to check out melamine...I would have lost the bet on that as well...

...Doug what type of melamine did you find was the best? Just the 3mm laminate or did you pick up some already bonded to MDF/chipboard?

I have an offcut of MDF with melamine. Its about 30cm square and about 25mm thick. I tape the edges of the wet-and-dry down.

Originally Posted by Ben Dono

Their is also slurry sharpening.. Some of the stones (generally the finer or harder stones) you will want to build up a mix of water and stone on the surface. A thiner slurry cuts faster that a dry paste like slurry.

I keep adding water to the slurry to keep it fairly thin. It feels like it is polishing better than if the slurry becomes paste-like.

Cheers

Doug

I'm coming in a little late here.

With regard to waterstones, King have been around a long, long time. 15 years ago they were the standard by which manufactured waterstones were measured. I had a set of 800/1200/6000 and then replaced the 6000 with the 8000 Gold. They did a decent job of sharpening, and the 8000 is still considered a good stone. However they are soft stones, cut more slowly and dish far quicker than other makes, and for many have been replaced by more modern equivalents. Norton is one of the cheaper makes. I have Shapton Pros and Sigmas, which have a ceramic binder that wears slowly. They are harder stones and dish significantly less than the Kings with their clay binder. My current set includes the Shapton Pro 1000, and Sigma 6000 and 13000. These are not expensive but still much more costly than Kings. If in doubt, contact Stu at Tools from Japan. I would not purchase waterstones from a general tool shop, such as at a Show, unless the salesperson was able to convince you they were knowledgeable about such matters and not simply selling you their current line of stones.

Forget flattening a stone with 4000 grit sandpaper. I am not saying that it cannot work - obviously it does for some - however it will take forever! When I used Kings I either used 240 W&D on glass or a 225 grit plasterboard mesh. I only flatten waterstones when they are wet - that is how they are used - and I do so frequently. I now use a 225 grit diamond stone. Keep it only for this purpose - do not use it with steel - and it will last forever. It abrades the waterstone quickly and does not require a flat glass plate. You can hold the waterstone under a tap or in a bucket of water, and it will ease the process. Water is your friend with waterstones.

I am unconvinced that a finer media makes any difference when flattening a waterstone. The aim of flattening is two-fold: it must flatten the surface, and it must release fresh grit. A flat surface is not necessarily a smooth surface, and the grit in a waterstone is not going to crushed to finer grit with sandpaper.

The number of stones you need depends on how you prepare the primary bevel. If honing a flat bevel the amount of steel is at its maximum. Then you require more stones. If you work with a microbevel (either via a secondary bevel or a hollow grind) then the amount of steel to hone is minimised, and you can get away with 2 stones. Skip the middle stone with the latter.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Ben Dono

I would have put money on it that the 4000k paper would have not even come close to flattening a stone! Ya learn something new every day!
Actually, I'm going to check out melamine..y.

Good Morning Ben

I initially tried melamine for scary sharp backing plates - 16 and 18 mm. Much melamine (most ??) has a very fine embossed surface and this transfers through the finer grades of sandpaper - starting at about 400 grit.

Got a sheet of toughened glass and the problem went away. Glass is an old car window - $2 from a wrecker!


Fair Winds

Graeme