Thread: Anyone got information on this stone.

I don't have specific information based on the label, but I guess I've probably seen and used as many natural stones as anyone.

That stone, if the greenish tint that I see appears in person, looks like a greenish hone slate that's sold in china. There are a bunch of chinese hone slates, and ones of the same color and type but from different retailers can be quite different feeling.

Is your objective to dump it or see if you like it and if so, compared to what? I don't recall that I've had one of those specifically, but I've had probably 10 chinese hone slates, and another half dozen other stones (agates, etc).

The Chinese one I have is more grey-green, and it is a natural waterstone. Very hard stone, probably 6000-8000 grit.

Purchased about 18 years ago. I got mine from Carbatec, but Lee Valley were also selling them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by D.W.

I don't have specific information based on the label, but I guess I've probably seen and used as many natural stones as anyone.

That stone, if the greenish tint that I see appears in person, looks like a greenish hone slate that's sold in china. There are a bunch of chinese hone slates, and ones of the same color and type but from different retailers can be quite different feeling.

Is your objective to dump it or see if you like it and if so, compared to what? I don't recall that I've had one of those specifically, but I've had probably 10 chinese hone slates, and another half dozen other stones (agates, etc).

At this stage I don't know what I want to do with it. Some cursory reading has people saying they're hard and very good at putting a more durable final polish on a chisel than a regular stone... Which my experience with the finer grits of waterstones suggests would be right. Not hard to dig into the finer grits when you push the blade. I used to drag back a few times before going forward to reduce the risk.


Do you like them or not fussed?

EDIT: Just had a go with it and wow does it work well at honing the edge. It's supposed to be a 6000 but cuts like a 1200 and leaves an edge like a 6000.

I've attached a pic with it being soaked for better colour. It's definitely light green with a bit of grey and some shiny flecks in veins through it.

Do you think it's chinese or Japanese. I'm assuming chinese as it's imported and cut here and I gather the Japanese stones come with some sort of number written on them.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

The Chinese one I have is more grey-green, and it is a natural waterstone. Very hard stone, probably 6000-8000 grit.

Purchased about 18 years ago. I got mine from Carbatec, but Lee Valley were also selling them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

This one is definitely much more light green with a bit of grey and then veins of shiny flecks.

Just tried it and wow does it cut fast and clean.

I think it's chinese. raising a slurry with a diamond hone on it and examining the color will give you some idea, but outside of the gray guanxi stones, which are gray or sometimes have some brownish stretch mark looking things but are gray with a gray slurry, I don't know of any standardized natural sedimentary stones from japan.

The guanxi stones were all over the board in hardness, but the ones sold by woodwell (typically what we see selected for woodworking) are usually on the hard but not too hard side.

The test for fineness to see if something is really a finishing stone in the sense of range is this:
* if there is a dense slurry, what is the polish like on steel
* if there is a watery slurry, what is the polish like on steel
* if there is no slurry, what is the polish like

The latter should be capable of mirror, though it will be slow working.

if the stone "auto slurries" continuing to release particles into the water without you abrading the stone, then it's on the soft side and may not do the last step, but stones like that are often good for finishing knives, so all is not lost. they are practical for woodworking sometimes, but will not leave a refined edge.

Too, many times, the grit or characteristics of stones like this are conveyed by label of the box or whatever, but if the stones are variable, you will be the only person who can determine what the stone is like.

It's not impossible to find stones like that mined in japan, but japanese stone uniformity is fairly poor other than for some unusual quarries like atagoyama (dark green fine stones, often enormous in size). The desire of woodworking retailer distribution chains to really get something cheap and mark things up further than a typical retailer would excludes the idea of packaging any reputable japanese stone, though.

Hopefully the talk above seems objective and not as a "nah, it's not a valuable stone" type thing. A good sedimentary stone is a nice thing to have, and dollar for dollar, the guangxi hones are far more capable than spending double or triple on a japanese stone. i didn't figure out the guanxi as a beginner, but the couple that I've kept will make an edge that's not to be distinguished from a good japanese finisher. if they were light green and came from japan, they'd cost 10 times as much.

And some of the chinese sedimentary stones look scarily like pretty widely sold tomae stones in japan (ohira, hiderayama, etc).

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

At this stage I don't know what I want to do with it. Some cursory reading has people saying they're hard and very good at putting a more durable final polish on a chisel than a regular stone... Which my experience with the finer grits of waterstones suggests would be right. Not hard to dig into the finer grits when you push the blade. I used to drag back a few times before going forward to reduce the risk.


Do you like them or not fussed?

EDIT: Just had a go with it and wow does it work well at honing the edge. It's supposed to be a 6000 but cuts like a 1200 and leaves an edge like a 6000.

I've attached a pic with it being soaked for better colour. It's definitely light green with a bit of grey and some shiny flecks in veins through it.

Do you think it's chinese or Japanese. I'm assuming chinese as it's imported and cut here and I gather the Japanese stones come with some sort of number written on them.

By the way, the more durable edge professing about natural stones really isn't true. the natural stones do generally have more range, especially if they can be used from slurry to clear water, but any durability that's imparted in terms of preventing edge damage would be due to "slurry dulling", or the action of the particles rolling the edge just a little bit.

this is the same action that one would get with a razor strop or a buffer - not necessarily a bad thing. the softer waterstones with a slurry will do the same thing.

Originally Posted by D.W.

if the stone "auto slurries" continuing to release particles into the water without you abrading the stone, then it's on the soft side and may not do the last step, but stones like that are often good for finishing knives, so all is not lost. they are practical for woodworking sometimes, but will not leave a refined edge.

...

The desire of woodworking retailer distribution chains to really get something cheap and mark things up further than a typical retailer would excludes the idea of packaging any reputable japanese stone, though.

My only experience of a natural Chinese stone was from Carbatec about the same time as Derek got his from them. My stone was as hard as and not super fine. I didn't like it and I passed it on. Acquiring naturals that you can't try before you buy is a tricky business. It makes the eventual cost of the ones you do like even more expensive!

Spin Dr, if you already like that stone after trying it you are onto a winner, either as a keeper or flipper, especially if it cost you $100-150 or less.

For most woodworkers the man made water stones are a safer way to go. I have a bunch of those for that and most of them were close to the mark on receiving them.

I also have a bunch of Japanese naturals for my kitchen knives. All selected to be on the softer side for those. I wouldn't bother myself with the naturals if it weren't for my kitchen knives.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Spin Dr, if you already like that stone after trying it you are onto a winner, either as a keeper or flipper, especially if it cost you $100-150 or less.

For most woodworkers the man made water stones are a safer way to go. I have a bunch of those for that and most of them were close to the mark on receiving them.

Well... (Bit of a grin on my face now) I essentially paid $25 for it. Literally had no idea at all about it. It was part of a $200 package sale I made for a HNT Gordon Smoother and it and King 1200. So, I guess I got a good deal, not that it matters now - after trying it I'm leaning to keeping it. Neither stone has been used before by the looks of them. I've never been all that fussed with waterstones, or oil stones for that matter... I've used a power strop for decades and the stones for the most part haven't been out of the cabinet in well over a decade. But this one may have me revisiting honing.

I was also looking at the label to gauge age and it looks like it's pretty old, at least 20 years.

So I'm guessing they hit the market well at one time and then quickly fizzled. I've had a look around the internet and no ones really talking about chinese waterstones/whetstones in Australia

Originally Posted by D.W.

The test for fineness to see if something is really a finishing stone in the sense of range is this:
* if there is a dense slurry, what is the polish like on steel
* if there is a watery slurry, what is the polish like on steel
* if there is no slurry, what is the polish like

The latter should be capable of mirror, though it will be slow working.

I'd say from honing a couple chisels it's in-between a watery slurry and no slurry. But! When you say it'll cut slow with little to no slurry, that isn't the case with this stone. I was surprised at how much it took off the bevel and still left, not a mirror finish but darn close. I was saying it cuts like a 1200 but leaves a finish like a 6000. My way of testing edges isn't like anyone elses. I don't find the fingernail grab (for lack of a better description) to indicate much of anything. I run my nail along the edge and feel for resistance. Resistance off the stone wasn't as good as off my power strop but noticeably better than a 6000 manmade waterstone even though they looked like they left an equivalent finish.

Here's the Chinese waterstone I mentioned earlier. I pulled it out today and used it to polish the chisels I was using (A2 Blue Spruce) ...



Very hard stone. Not as hard as a Spyderco, but harder than a Sigma 10K I am using. No slurry. Excellent polish. I used it all day (only had to do so twice).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Terry Gordon was selling them certainly in the mid to late 1990s - not sure when he stopped. And they were his preferred choice of sharpening stone for his blades at that stage.

I'd contact Terry if you want a bit more information on them.

Can't speak for Terry's reasons, but lots of stuff was more narrowly distributed before the internet had more than ebay and amazon retailer sites on it (which it did way back in the mid 90s).

Around 15 years ago, these stones went from being something you could get and most people wouldn't find elsewhere to being sold by dozens or hundreds of sellers, and there is a catch with these - they are not going to properly sharpen anything with significant carbide volume. As I recall, Terry likes to put M2 irons or something similar in a lot of his tools, and these stones will give you an impression that they're sharpening, but they don't sharpen the carbides - they rub and break them.

Especially vanadium carbides (which exist in M2 HSS and almost any reasonably priced HSS), but weird things can happen with other types of carbides and natural stones. Actually, vanadium carbides come out kind of ratty even with alumina stones like shaptons, etc, and really need to be cut by diamonds or CBN (the former if working by hand) or you get a tool that looks and feels sort of sharp but isn't fully sharpened.

Loose diamonds would need to be sprinkled on the chinese stones to complete the job.

Originally Posted by BFDACT

Terry Gordon was selling them certainly in the mid to late 1990s - not sure when he stopped. And they were his preferred choice of sharpening stone for his blades at that stage.

I'd contact Terry if you want a bit more information on them.

I was thinking it looked like a stone I got off Terry at one of the Wood Shows in the ‘90s.
Mine seems like 8-10,000, harder than my King waterstones.
I don’t remember how much I paid, but I bought a plane off him and he offered the stone at a price that was too cheap to pass up.