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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    6,954

    Default PMV11 sharping let the games Begin [emoji41]

    I’ve recently started using some PMV11 blade irons.
    I know there been out for a while ,but I’m a little slow and keeping up with the trendy’s .

    My workshop is steel box in some forsaken godless town somewhere on an island.
    With poor Google reception, well that’s my poor look at me look at me excuse.

    I’ve been sort of happily sharping them on my King water stones(do they do queen stones[emoji6]) then finishing on my Ice bear 10,000 grit stone.
    This has been leaving me with questionable little shaved squares,
    Ye I know a week ,way to determine if it’s sharp.
    And to be perfectly honest ,if that’s all that was available it would get the job done.


    I’m yet to try hollow grinding and sharping but am keen.
    But ,that will be another day[emoji41].
    But, let’s not rush into all this at once.
    So ,what the hell am I blabbing on about,
    With regards PMV11 steel only, what’s everyone’s preferred sharping medium.
    Are you a diamonds are for ever?
    Water stones rule?
    You like wet and dry paper thingy(Yuk)?
    Or let me think your a bit of a combination?
    You think Tormack rule an only sharpen if your burning electrons!
    Are you into paste on cast iron?
    Do you stropping once you have done.

    Now I know this is a sharping question, and this normally generates more heat than a nuclear activator switched to overload.
    But ,could we play nice please [emoji3064][emoji3064][emoji3064]
    I’m just a simple person [emoji1782][emoji1782]

    Cheers Matt.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Age
    43
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Gday I only use a few PMV-11 plane blades (in a few speciality Veritas planes - the 90 degree and rabbet side plane).

    So far I just use the same setup as my regular plane irons and chisels. A set of diamond plates (coarse, fine, extra-fine), and I'm feeling I can be bothered, moving onto an 8000-grit then 16000 Shapton stone. Either way, strop to finish off.

    I used a Veritas Mk II honing guide - too chicken to freehand with the smaller PMV-11 blades. Plus with the skew blade on the iron edge... there's no way I'd have confidence as a hobbyist freehanding an expensive skew blade.

    All my PMV-11 blades have been so well-lapped on the back I haven't had to worry about back bevels or the "ruler trick" to deal with the backs.

    I made a diamond plate holder based on the Paul Sellers video and it's a real dream for sharpening on the bench. Just leave on a shelf underneath, lift up, then back down.

    I can't really offer any comparisons or much wisdom, save that these middle-of-the-road methods work well.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bundaberg
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,399

    Default

    I recently acquired a pair of Veritas PMV11 irons, one for a #3 and a 2-1/4” one currently living in a 4-1/2. These definitely take longer to hone than any of my other irons, all my bench planes have either Stanley or Titan HSS irons fitted.

    My “from scratch” method starts on a Chinese 400/1000 diamond stone, then on to an old worn Sherwood 1000 grit diamond stone, then Scary Sharp at 3, 1 and 0.3 micron lapping film mounted on 10mm thick float glass. Ive just ordered a 200/600 Chinese diamond stone to help me rehab some of my more tragically chipped irons. Touching up is on the lapping film only.

    I use a Veritas MkII set at 25 degrees up to the first 1000 grit diamond, then change to 30 degrees for the worn 1000 grit and lapping films. Generally I don’t revisit the 25 degree set up until the micro bevel is around a third of the size of the primary bevel. I don’t use the cam on the roller either except for plough or combo plane irons where I use the 400 stone at 35 degrees and use the cam to put on a micro bevel with the 1000 stone.

    I have quite a few cheaper guides including an old eclipse, a couple of Chinese knock-offs of the Eclipse and an old Record 161 (the best guide ever made for honing round profiles like the iron from my 100-1/2). Added to that are a selection of diamond plates, oil stones and a King 1200 grit waterstone. I use all these others as demo tools to show what is available and let people have a play with.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,803

    Default

    The problem with sharpening threads on forums is that they all end up the same way - a million different methods and recommendations ... proving that everyone is wrong and I am the only one with the secret to the right way to do this!

    When deciding on a sharpening strategy, it is important to consider the type of steel you are sharpening. The softer steels, such as O1 (including laminated blades, even the Japanese with very hard cutting layers) can be honed on the full face of the bevel. However the harder and more abrasion-resistant steels, such as A2 and PM-V11, really need to be sharpened with a microbevel. The microbevel may either be a tiny secondary bevel or it may be a product of honing on the face of a hollow grind.

    Generally, secondary bevels are easier to do with a honing guide if you are starting out, or if you have no intention of developing the handskills involved. With the latter, lifting the blade a couple of degrees as you move to the next higher grit, requires some practice to achieve relative accuracy, and for this reason fewer stones are preferred (less error involved).

    For those freehand honing directly on the hollow, as I do, the process is made quicker if the hollow is done well. The best hollows are those that leave very little steel to hone, and the edge is straight. A straight edge may not require a coarse stone (eg 1000 grit) to straighten it before moving to a middle stone (eg 6000 grit).

    The process is similar when using a honing guide: a straight primary bevel can be more easily converted to a secondary bevel with a middle stone if there is little work to do. This is why grinders such as the Tormek, belt grinders, and dry grinders with CBN wheels score so highly - they leave a cleaner and straighter primary bevel. Tormek blade guides, and similar blade holders, such as the Veritas, also facilitate a straighter grind and edge. Excellent work may be done freehanding and with white and pink wheels, but these do require more hand skill.

    More commonly, for those starting out, the magic bullet is not a great grinder or the best honing guide or the stones one uses. The magic bullet is knowing what to do, and what to do is to create a wire edge each time you hone a bevel (whether primary, secondary or tertiary). That is a guarantee that you are honing to the edge of the blade, and that is what you MUST do to create a sharp edge. All the above comments are geared towards achieving that wire. Anything less and all you are doing is polishing above the cutting edge. It looks pretty but is dull.

    Honing on a full bevel is easiest when the steel is soft, and this is especially important if using the slower cutting media, such as oil stones. I included laminated Japanese blades in this category since the backing layer is often very soft cast iron and the hard cutting later is very thin - essentially the same deal as a honing on a secondary bevel.

    Paul Sellers once posted a confronting
    video in which he sharpened plane blades with a 250 grit medium. The planes cut. Some (like myself) commented that this was not a true representation of sharpening needs, that is, the wood was soft and straight grained. But the point is that even a low grit can do the job. 16000 grit waterstones are not automatically the answer.

    The other recommendation is that what ever you use, use it for one year before you make any further changes. It takes time to get the best out of something.

    For the record, I mainly use a worn 600 grit diamond Eze-lap diamond stone (which does not get used until the third honing - and can be delayed longer if I use my hardwood strop more frequently before the blade dulls appreciably), Medium and Ultra-Fine Spyderco ceramic stones, and end with Lee Valley green compound on a hardwood strop. I hollow grind on a 180 grit CBN wheel on a half speed dry grinder. This system has been in place a few years now and I have not wished to change it.

    Please read this article I wrote, which is on my website:
    http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ningSetUp.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Age
    43
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Thanks Derek

    I am looking forward to trying the hollow grind technique - I am a newbie but working my way up with one tool. At the moment the PMV-11 blades I'm sharpening are small enough that I seem to get away with just more effort. This will no doubt change when I get some larger ones.

    I do not have a drill press at present (freeing up enough space is in the works). I was thinking of picking up an oscillating spindle sander for the purpose - but as space-starved newbie I'm trying to minimise machinery that I can't pack away so I will wait till the drill press is available.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,696

    Default

    I must admit my approach to sharpening is to take the least amount of time as possible to get the edge I want. The shortest time so far is a hollow grind and hand sharpening to a mini bevel. The bevel is small enough that the angle does not seem important but others might disagree, very small chisels require a jig of some description which makes sharpening them a bit long winded. Getting good results requires practise and patience when we are creatures who want instant results which causes frustration and a tendency throw things.
    CHRIS

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    6,954

    Default

    Thanks for all the input everyone,
    Lots to consider,
    Well not really just need to get on to some hollow grinding, I think I’ve been converted.


    Cheers Mat.

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