Thread: Scary sharp questions

Mat

As I mentioned, I use one of my diamond stones, usually the coarsest one (180 grit). Rub/sand the top of the waterstone diagonally (both ways - left and right). What you will see is the hollow in the centre of the waterstone. This will be a different colour to the rest of the stone. Keep sanding this way until it goes.

As a rule of thumb, the higher grits (4000 and above) are quite hard stones and relatively good at holding their flatness (for a few blades at least). It is the softer, lower grits (1200 and below) that are more susceptible to wear. Fortunately we use them less.

I tend to use a diamond stone on the waterstone immediately before sharpening anyway. Not to flatten it, per se, but to create a slurry. The slurry (= mud) aids the sharpening action.

Another way to flatten waterstones - should you not have handy diamond stones - is to rub them on a rough FLAT surface. Some use clinker bricks, others concrete floors You can even use a coarser grade waterstone.

Hope this all helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for the replies.
Are the cleaning stones sold for waterstones also used to flatten the waterstone?

I might be tapping into this thread a bit late (been away at Rugby and Melb. Cup) but it seems to me that the main disadvantage of SS is the waste. I've used it a couple of times since discovering it and it produces great results but the volume of 'consumables' is a concern.

On the other hand it's dead easy and very cheap to set up. All you need is a piece of glass and a jig. I made mine from a bit of 4x2 hardwood. In the long run you most likely lose out on the cost of the W&D but I guess stones need replacing every now and then too. I only use four grits (that's all I can get at the local hardware shop) so that cuts the cost down a bit.

The results I get are light years ahead of what I can get with the old double-sided oilstone that I've been using up till now.

I found the ss method good for quick and reasonably cheap results for occasional use. Shoping around I found ½ sheets of 2000 & 2500 grit hermes for about $1.80ea. I’m not sure if this is good or not but combine it with a few full sheets of wet n dry it’s very affordable to anyone who wishes to experience what it’s like to have truly sharp tools.

My main curiosity was that I’ve used many hand tools sharpened by others that were noticeably sharper than I’d been able to achieve, more through a lack of trying than lack of gear. I’ve a couple of small diamond files which are good for sharpening router bits but I don’t think much of this style for larger blades.
I’ve since set up with three natural waterstones and topped it off with the veritas jig. I’ve honed a couple of blades with diamond paste and found this eliminated tearout I’d previously experienced on highly figured redgum and ironbark, but I find no other need to go this far in general sharpening.

For me the next job will be to track down some better quality plane blades – the pursuit never ends and the wish list only ever grows.

Cheers, Mark

With all of this varied information posted (all of it very useful) one might start to think that this sharpening business was a bit like rocket science and may consider purchasing a book to get some straight answers

Tim :

Well, the question is: how sharp is sharp?

Until I actually made the effort, I worked for years with what many people would consider to be blunt tools.

Some people make an artform of the sharpening process that conjures up images of Japanese tea ceremonies

Somewhere in between is where I'd like to be. I don't suppose a tool can be too sharp but I loaned a chisel to my Brother-in-law once and he complained that it was dangerous because he cut his finger on it. He's a chippy by the way.

I think that sharpening is just like any other skill in woodworking. You can get by with a basic understanding but the time will come when your ambitions will outstrip your skills and you will want to improve.

It's like anything in life I suppose, the more you learn, the more you realise that you don't know. It's then a matter of knowing enough to get you to where you want to go. If you want to reach the moon, then yes, rocket science will be a prerequisite

I think there may be some confusion concerning the sharpening angles that I referred to in my previous post and those that Zed gave. I was talking about the angles between the back face of the blade and the faces of the two bevels. Zed was referring, I think, to the angle between the back of the blade and the surface of the sharpening stone.

The Art of Sharpening

Actually, I hate sharpening. I really don't have the patience for it. It's a good thing that I have so many planes and chisels because I can move on when one no longer works. And this is exactly what life has been like until fairly recently, when I speeded up the art of sharpening (learning to do it freehand, see earlier thread). What I used to detest was the time I would have to put aside to sharpen all those planes on my shelves when I finally ran out of planes with a sharp blade.

Regardless of the method by which we choose to sharpen a blade, the aim is to create a sharp edge. End of story. Isn't it that simple? Well, yes and no.

The first point of note is that a Sharp blade comprises one edge and two sides. And if we don't reduce the blade to just two sides, we will have more than one edge. And then we have Blunt.

In a nut-shell: Sharpen the bezel (or bevel), sharpen the back of the blade, and reduce the point at which they meet to as fine a join as possible. If you hold a blade up to the light (even better, use a magnifying glass), you will see a silver line. This is light reflected from the meeting of the two sides. The thicker the line, the more Blunt the blade. The aim of sharpening is to make that line disappear. This will ONLY occur IF you sharpen BOTH sides of the blade, and keep going until it is GONE.

If you get lazy, tired, bored, etc and leave the mearest sliver of light, you have a Blunt blade.

Related to this is the Wire Edge, that is the rolled over metal fillings that you can feel with your finger on the back of the blade after sharpening the front bezel. The wire edge is Good since it lets you know that the join between the two sides has been completed. But it must go. A few strokes with the blade held flat on the sharpening surface will be enough. Don't be tempted to leave it - it may initially feel sharp, but it will role over/flatten as you plane and just obstruct the blade edge. In my experience a sharp blade does not have a rough edge, so you can feel it and not necessarily cut yourself.

Note that I have not yet said anothing about the grit level needed for True Sharpness. The question here (as in Jepargdy) is "What has the smoothest surface, a mirror or a gravel path"? Only a smooth surface will slice cleanly. Anything less will cut less. So you can decide what level of sharpness you will be satisfied with.

For myself, I aim for 6000 on my waterstones (about 2500 on W&D), plus a honing on 8000 paste.

Note, you must not move up a grit/level until the scratches of the previous sharpening are removed. Otherwise you will not have a mirror like glass, but a mirror with furrors. And that is not Truly Sharp.

Some people do indeed turn sharpening into an Art, as if it were zen. During moments of quiet contemplation I have enjoyed the rhythmic movements and sound of background music. But mostly I just want a sharp edge so I can get back to my True Love.

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Just some of my planes that need sharpening.

Regards

Derek

Derek,
I think you could find space for a few more.


I have always wanted to be able to produce a perfectly sharp plane iron.
It hasn't been that high in my priorities as I do not use a hand plane often. I have the patience but as yet the skill has alluded me. In the last month I have taken up the scary sharp method and am very pleased with the result. I have also followed the threads and tuned my 30 year old No 4 Stanley hanyman plane with plastic handles and my year old stanley block plane. They are very shiny and now reside in custom made wooden boxes so they do not have to fight for space with the other tools. The scary sharp method with a Veritas guide has got me close but I know it could be better. I can recommend the scary sharp method to other weekend woodworkers. In the meantime I will keep trying. By the way I now look for a reason to use a hand plane so I can hear that crisp whistle and feel the smoothness of the timber after a cut.

Thanks Derek for the photo to of my oasis in the West.

Today I sharpened 2 planes of a turner mate using my water stones. After marvelling at the ability to shave his arms (with the sharpened blades) he is making me 3 redgum round mallets. He thinks my square beech mallet needs replacing.

The planes were a Stanley Coachman's plane (no 10?) and a Stanley bedrock which looked like a no7 or larger. The blade on the bedrock just fitted into the Veritas jig. Two beautiful planes.

This is the largest bedrock plane I have seen and now used.

If I don't reply in the next week or so, I am going troppo(er)in FNQ for work.

- Wood Borer

three words.

ARKANSAS BLACK ROCK

try it!. The stones are expensive, but worth the dollar. I finish on mine after removing nicks and round faces off my work knives and get a shave edge every time, by hand, in a minute or two. I have managed to put an edge to a knife that had particularly good steel that allowed me to shave my chin (cutthroat style)!!!

No Kidding!

They are dear, even compared to a diamond or water stone, but damn they give a nice edge. When I have a lot of time on my hands (watching tv or similar) I break out a lansky set, wich is a great way of 'trueing' an edge again. I dont suggthis idea for a chisel or a plane, but the arkansas stone would be spot on.

The fine side of my stone only polishes and removes so little material I only use water on it as anything else is too heavy.