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Thread: Sharpening setup
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20th July 2018, 07:37 AM #61GOLD MEMBER
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20th July 2018, 08:55 AM #62
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20th July 2018, 11:30 AM #63GOLD MEMBER
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Steels don't sharpen like flint breaking along a molecular line. You can't do it.
I changed, simplified, most of what I do for "carving sharp" after reading Leonard Lee's book.
Study the scanning electron microscope images on pages 32 and 33.
Human eyesight cannot physically resolve fine scratches.
The edges hone to a polish but at 20X magnification, they are not smooth.
But, spend all you want. Sharpen from your knees not your elbows. You become the jig.
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20th July 2018, 11:51 AM #64GOLD MEMBER
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Don't spend any more and get together with Matt to assess what you are doing and the results. I would think what you have and some stropping with a finishing compound should get you over the line. The fact that beginners have no idea of what "sharp" should be is the biggest hurdle and I wasted a lot of money finding out. Like me I also reckon that a lot of more experienced members here are yet to see the epitome of sharpness and having got there they can then judge at what level they should be sharpening to for the task in hand.
CHRIS
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20th July 2018, 09:18 PM #65GOLD MEMBER
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1. I think you need to increase the bevel angle for hardwood. Try 30°
2. You need to make sure that you hone your edge to the wire, forming burrs at each step before moving to finer grit.
3. Make sure you clean your blade thoroughly before moving to a finer grit.
4. Instead of the green compound I use a bit of autosol from supercheap
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20th July 2018, 09:40 PM #66
I'd say failure to observe point (2) above is the biggest cause for a disappointing sharpening outcome.....
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20th July 2018, 10:54 PM #67SENIOR MEMBER
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As advice above, go to 30 degrees. I did the 25 degree thing too when I started. Result is just grief. Aussie hardwood = 30 degree bevels minimum, simple.
Tell you what though, old instructionals like this from Chris Schwarz are well worth a careful watch, so many things that we need to watch for that can cause bad planing results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CME8UOcIEVg
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21st July 2018, 12:11 AM #68GOLD MEMBER
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thanks guys. i will try 30deg and ensure there is bur on opposite side.
But how many of you guys finish at 6000? Do you go further and/or strop?
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21st July 2018, 12:14 AM #69
25 degrees on a Veritas BU plane for end grain is absolutely fine. I have planed end grain with this configuration for as long as modern BU planes have been around, and never suffered a chipped edge or a problem with edge holding.
And here is some recent evidence: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tingPlane.html
Note that this assumes that you are planing end grain, not face grain. 37 degrees is too low for face or edge grain.
If your LA Jack is not cutting, then the blade is not sharp (regardless of the method or stones you use). End of story.
There may be a few reasons for this, the most common being that you did not create hone across the blade to the back. Creating a wire edge is your guarantee that you have honed across the blade to the back. This needs to be the case with each grit.
The wire needs to be removed, however if you are sharpening with successive grits, the wire edge should become smaller. Still, ensure it is gone at the end.
Set the blade for a fine cut, and work your way up to the thickness you need.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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21st July 2018, 12:42 AM #70
I would not be satisfied with 6000 grit, especially for end grain. I have mentioned this before.
The cheapest way to upgrade the edge is with Lee Valley green compound (crayon), not the Bunnings variety. Some like Autosol, but this must be used on MDF. It is messier than the green compound. There is no extra gain in sharpness. I use the green crayon scribbled on planed hardwood. Just a light scribble. It lasts a long time. Only renew it when it is black.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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26th July 2018, 07:36 AM #71GOLD MEMBER
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The standards of a joiner will not always do for cabinetwork. There are joiners who use nothing other than an india stone and the palm of their hand, which will be tough.
Nicholson or similar text is useful if you want to find the sharpening standards of a cabinetmaker.
Paul Sellers trained as a joiner and not as a cabinetmaker, IIRC. Most of the finer work made on his website involved him and other people, and he's not capable of efficiently preparing stock with hand tools.
I think he is a good guy, but he's not a good representation of "how they did it in the old days" in a lot of cases, unless the old days is guys doing work in houses in the 1960s and 1970s.
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26th July 2018, 07:40 AM #72GOLD MEMBER
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horse leather on a substrate, MDF, good quality plywood scrap, all of it is fine for autosol.
I keep meaning to pull up pictures from the two (microscope of autosol vs. the green stick from LV - both are "carving" fine by any standards. Green chrome graded at 0.5 or 0.3 micron is finer than both, but wholly impractical as a step for any woodworking work, because it's also slow.
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26th July 2018, 07:44 AM #73GOLD MEMBER
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I am late to this thread, but I have a severe fascination with sharpening media, though most of my experimentation is in the past.
I generally use either:
1) a washita stone (that includes for end grain - no clue what the equivalence is, but the edge quality across endgrain is more pleasant than a 4000x king stone) followed by bare leather
2) just about anything similar to a washita stone followed by a cheap hard oilstone from japan that is labeled "barber's oilstone", and is white, then bare leather (or compound on leather if the tool is a carving tool)
If i were using a complex steel like some of the aussie folks see as necessary, I would use a 1200 or 600 diamond plate followed by the "barber" stone.
Sharpening must be complete (no scuzzle left on the edge) and it must be quick. There are forum users who can sharpen with a guide and get a fragile edge that is ever so slightly more refined than my #2 above, but their cycle times are three or four times as long as mine.
(dry grinder, too - if no dry grinder is available, a norton crystolon in oil is the bevel grinding stone of choice - or coarse sandpaper stuck to glass).
I guarantee that regardless, if you maximize your work at the lower stones to get an edge suitable so that you're never doing more than refining the very edge with your finest stone, you'll have more success and honest laziness should promote your method forward until your sharpening cycle time is less than two minutes.
(i have sharpened V11 without issue on a washita, it works fine - you couldn't grind a bevel on it, but if you have a grinder and a strop, it's not slow - freehand. A2 is an exception in that on some natural stones, it appears under the microscope to release carbides, and it never really gets sharp feeling. It is the only steel I've sharpened where I see that happen - out of modern chrome vanadium types - like pfeil, O1, older steels, japanese steels, V11 and others, only the A2 did that - and the best A2 did that. This kind of thing, some steels having fits with some media - is well known in knife and razor circles, but probably not in woodworking).
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