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19th August 2020, 06:32 AM #16GOLD MEMBER
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the numbers you specified are a good mix - alox is a little more aggressive, as is diamond more yet. Not uncommon for shavers here when I was watching the shaving forums to work down to 0.25 micron and then finish on chrome ox.
The issue with the LV stuff (i'll show you some pictures) is that it has far too much aggression. They may say the average particle size is 0.5 micron, but the larger particles in it blow way past that. It's OK for a straight razor, but far too much for these soft stainless blades.
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19th August 2020, 10:27 PM #17GOLD MEMBER
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Here's the formax microfine, the same 0.5 micron stuff that LV sells with near 100% certainty. We don't have LV in the US, but woodcraft and rockler also sell this.
https://i.imgur.com/NoGfvvH.jpg
That's from scribbling the bar on solid surface. And just to make sure the solid surface material isn't abrasive (it is a little where it isn't polished, but this is polished).
Here is what hand american graded chrome ox leaves for scratches:
https://i.imgur.com/MbZ5trE.jpg
Below visible wavelength for scratching on a wide surface - you can see little dots of oil on the solid surface material, but that's it (those are really hard to completely remove - all traces of oil - at 150x magnification).
Iron oxide .09 micron is about 5 times finer than this yet, perhaps a little more, to the point that it's hard to get a lap set up initially that doesn't scuff more than the iron oxide does.
Here's the kicker - the LV green stuff wouldn't be good even on a softer substrate for these really soft stainless blades, but that alumina makes it FAR better for woodworking because it has enough tooth to do the job. The chrome ox is so fine that it's really appropriate only for razors as you have to bring something already sharp to it and then it refines that. It really has no capacity to do any work to an imperfect edge.
The scratches shown from the formax microfine on hard surface are about 2 micron equivalent by my vision/guessing from seeing a lot of pictures. If it's used for tools on a slightly softer substrate, the result is much finer.
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19th August 2020, 10:28 PM #18GOLD MEMBER
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(that softer substrate can be something as simple as wood and with a tool that can take some pressure. In this case, the blades can't really take any pressure).
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30th August 2020, 07:16 AM #19GOLD MEMBER
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About a dozen shaves in, I notice little change in the blade - there's no new defects on the edge, but it needs all of two passes to get a good close shave. The bonus for me despite the significant increased effort going with and against the grain is that the edge is rounded too much to cause razorburn no matter what. The uninitiated may push and go diagonal with it, though (disaster!!).
I'll keep shaving with it for a while, but I can't see the blade changing, and only the most thrifty would probably want the really almost dull but smooth shave all the time (it has no chance of unseating the straight razor, which isn't limited by the cheesy stainless steel).
Haven't bought the feather razor yet - the cost with tax being close to $170 makes me hesitate a little bit (it's $200 at shave supply places here). Used price is less than $10 less in all of the listings I've seen (most of those people probably bought razors at $200+shipping +tax, or closer to $220 or so, so I can't blame them. The addition of sales tax makes just flippantly trying things a lot less attractive. In the old days, you get something like this, ebay charged 5% of transaction, no tax, payment with postal money order was common ($0.80 charge no matter the amount under $100). Now, the proposition is about $50 just to try a razor like that and get top dollar on resale - that's the loss due to sales tax, shipping, auction fees, currency fees, etc. I calculate around $48 if I could make a sale at $140 with shipping.
About double what it used to cost to fish stuff around and try something and say "nah" (never been one to return items that aren't defective, I just re-sell them instead. Feels a whole lot less dishonest).
Trying this with an old carbon steel blade would be a lot more interesting as the honing lap has mineral oil in it, and the practice of keeping the blade sharp would likely be enough to keep it rust free, too.
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20th September 2020, 01:44 PM #20GOLD MEMBER
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Still shaving with the same de blade, it's still dull feeling, and it seems it'll just stay where it is forever. I can shave against the grain with it without damaging my face, though.
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24th September 2020, 12:28 AM #21GOLD MEMBER
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Final comment on this, I guess! Still continuing to shave with this relatively dull blade. It doesn't change at this point. I think it's potentially practical for some and not others, as follows:
1) not practical - not sharp enough to deal with much hair length - 1 day, or 2 max
2) not practical - most people aren't going to have a balsa lap or something with chrome ox to get the initial edge set after the blade goes through its (out of the pack) deflection and damage
3) practical - if you do shave with it every day and don't demand the closest of shaves, you can shave against the grain with a bit of a heavy hand and it won't damage skin. The shave is passable (this is a principle that draws me to straight shaving, but straight shaving you don't have dullness to deal with. Instead, you have better sharpness and rigidity, but for people with sensitive faces, once you settle into a method that doesn't cause razor burn, you can shave the same way every day and the razor sharpness will be about the same for at least 150 shaves. after resharpening, normalizing a straight razor back to smoothness takes about 3 shaves).
Bottom line, what's left after the initial coating and deflection is a subpar blade, and making it more blunt and smooth is the best you can do with it. But it's never going to really feel sharp again. For a very small minority (me, maybe a few others), that's actually a plus - I can shave quickly against the grain whereas I can't do that with a new blade.
I see no carbon steel blades around and no real chance of this catching on (or it would already have caught on).
Once in a while, I run into someone who says they get months of shaves out of a DE blade. I think it's just because (like me), they're not looking for the DE razor to return a great shave like a straight razor does, they're just scrubbing hair off with a dull razor and will do it again the next day. At least in this case, honing off the deflections on the blade makes the dullness more comfortable.
(I'll continue to use this dull blade indefinitely, but it won't be replacing a straight razor - it actually takes me less time to shave with a straight razor, even including stropping - but a decent SR setup with a hone, strop and linen is probably $200 at a minimum.)
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