Thread: Sharpening for turners - where to start?

All you need is a 8"/200mm bench grinder, (suggest Abbott & Ashby) replace the "comes with" wheels with aluminium oxide wheels.

or even a 150mm grinder. I've used a 150 to grind my lathe tools for 23 years and have a home made jig based on the tru-grind which only gets used to do some of the more dificult profiles on a couple of gouges.

Yes, a simple cheap bench grinder from the big hardware stores with two grit stones (medium coarse and fine) is really all you need.

Jigs are fine for chisels and plane irons, but personally I think sharpening turning chisels shouldn't need any jigs. Especially considering the regularity they require a sharpen (especially if you happen to be using carbon steel chisels). Freehand sharpening is really not too hard to master.

Brendan Stemp (well-known Aussie turner) used to have excellent videos on freehand sharpening on Youtube but his videos all seem to have disappeared recently?

V

I probably should have mentioned that he gave it a go on my bench grinder and had some inconsistent results. Not that surprising though as it was his first go. Although I had a fine grit wheel it still seemed to be aggressive, mostly due to the speed I think - it is a full speed grinder. The thing he struggled with was keeping the skew chisel at an angle to the wheel (20 degrees or whatever it was) and at a 45 degree angle along the tip while dealing with a pretty fast wheel. Also the gouge was a bit of a dog's breakfast. The grinder I have does not have an angle adjustment for the plate though which did not help. I was hoping to make it easier for him so he can concentrate on improving his turning skills and not all the time on the bench grinder

I was thinking a nice jig would help with this - when I looked at the cost of a bench grinder (esp half speed) and a jig system it looked to be as much as the wet stone systems. Perhaps just a better (standard) bench grinder might help.

I’d suggest a half speed grinder with appropriate jigs to hold chisels.

I’ll be the voice of dissent here… I would suggest one of the cheaper wetstone grinders (ideally 10” but 8” will work) but splurge on the Tormek jigs; the TTS-100 and SVD-186. I would also get the WM-200 Anglemaster unless the unit you buy comes with an equivalent model (like the Record wetstone grinder does). Last thing is a sharpening tool rest; Tormek’s version is the SVD-110 but there are generic versions equally as good. This is exactly what I did; I bought a 2nd hand Tiger 200 a few years ago but until I fitted it out with Tormek gear my sharpening was somewhat ordinary. Now saving my pennies to buy a T8!

If an 8” grinder is preferred then get the Tormek GM-100 which gives you the ability to mount the Tormek bar and all the accessories listed above.

If the tools are HSS (i'm guessing yes), then any grinder or sander would be fine. I think I may have tried to jig up turning tools (I had a tormek in the distant past), but ultimately found freehand grind easier and faster - grind short of the final angle you want, treat the edge with a stone and then do something to eliminate the burr on gouges on the inside if you've raised a big hard burr.

I do almost all of my turning now with a couple of parting tools and a couple of skews, though, so sharpening gouges in general is out (I don't turn bowls or vases, etc).

It comes down to practice. In well over 40 years I have never used a slow speed grinder to sharpen chisels plane blades etc.

I neglected to provide the reason for my suggestion of Tormek jigs...

A novice is unlikely to be able to duplicate the same grind unless he has either someone standing over his shoulder to provide instruction, or has some for of template to follow. A novice also won't know what a good even looks like unless he buys them ready to go or someone performs the initial shaping for him. And even then errors creep in... as an example at our guild we have a Vicmark grinder set up with the Vicmark sharpening jig and grinding rest. I had the instructions laminated and put up a quick reference guide for all our chisel types with the specific jig settings needed to achieve them and regularly demonstrate to the turners exactly how to set up and use it to make this:
Fingernail grind.jpg

And last week I took a deep-fluted bowl gouge down from the rack that looked like the bottom jaw of a Southern Right Whale....

Whale.jpg

The Tormek gear is a lot easier to set up and use and even comes with reference stickers to put on the tool so that you can record the exact settings you used to obtain that shape; leaving only Operator Error to ruin the grind.

Originally Posted by D.W.

If the tools are HSS (i'm guessing yes), then any grinder or sander would be fine.

You can't detemper HSS with normal grinding, so any speed of grinder (round or flat) and any abrasive will do the job, in a fashion.

I freehand sharpened my turning tools for the first twenty five years of turning before jigs came along, so I'm familiar with and done my fair share of freehand sharpening. I still freehand one of the grind profile that I use (40/40) as there isn't a jig setting that readily does that, but otherwise I prefer to use jigs for sharpening my gouges so that I consistently get exactly the same bevel profile that I want every time.

I don't find freehand sharpening of the one gouge profile that I still do that way any faster than all the other ones that I sharpen with a jig. Like everything, it's just a matter of getting economy into your movements and, of course, practise, practise.

My advice to any new turner is to begin with a gouge profile that is used or recommended by a highly experienced turner, or well known gouge maker, and set a jig to match that, then use that until you have mastered it. After that you will be ready to find your own way.

The Tru-Grind jig manual (attached) has instructions on page 11 on how to set the jig to match any given gouge profile. It's the same procedure with any jig of this style. The challenge is to get your hands on a known good gouge profile to start with if you don't belong to a club.

And, getting lessons is always a good investment. You can save yourself hours of frustration and get to the enjoyable bit sooner.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

And last week I took a deep-fluted bowl gouge down from the rack that looked like the bottom jaw of a Southern Right Whale....

Whale.jpg

I wasn't going to get into actual gouge grind profiles here as that is probably best left for over on the Woodturning forum.

Anyway, I thought for a bit there that one of my gouges had ended up in the rack at your Guild. I like that name, Southern Right Whale profile.

2 Ellsworth - low #180 hi #360.JPG

That is my preferred gouge profile for green turning bowls. I green turn bowls from go to whoa with that one. No need to change over to a bottom feeder for the inside bottom.

On the Torment system, a few professional turners use them but the overwhelming majority don't. I don't because I don't have enough other uses for a slow grinder designed for standard high carbon steel and they do come at a premium, price-wise. Besides, life is too short to be waiting around to get an edge back on HSS with any type of slow grinder!

For just woodturning purposes, IMO, a full speed 8" bench or belt grinder is a good starting point for tool sharpening. If you have other sharpening needs to take into account your decision might be different.

Originally Posted by NeilS

I don't find freehand sharpening of the one gouge profile that I still do that way any faster than all the other ones that I sharpen with a jig. Like everything, it's just a matter of getting economy into your movements and, of course, practise, practise.

I'm sure it depends on how much turning and what type. I think that folks who do a whole bunch of turning volume will find a jig faster to use as they'll get iterations with it, and unless they're turning to finish, most tools aren't going to get a polished plane iron type edge.

I don't think my freehanding could match a jig for someone doing large forms, etc - they're just going to be turning volume upon volume and at some point will prefer just getting the gouge in a jig and recreating the profile quickly on a grinder.

Your advice on finding a well known profile (and even better if the person who prefers the profile can be seen using it) is very good advice for anyone starting out. None of my tools came profiled in a way that I'd like to have them set, but that's fine, as it's not the gouge maker's job to send a finished tool, just one that's ground to a simple profile and properly hardened.

Originally Posted by NeilS

My advice to any new turner is to begin with a gouge profile that is used or recommended by a highly experienced turner, or well known gouge maker, and set a jig to match that, then use that until you have mastered it. After that you will be ready to find your own way.

In the absence of face to face tuition or advice in a club, here is a video on turning gouge sharpening made by Doug Thompson (of Thompson Lathe Tools). Doug is a woodturner who now makes turning tools. He sells a lot of those tools nowadays and he individually sharpens every one of them himself before shipping it.

These are very good tools and Doug knows his stuff when it comes to sharpening them. His advice on gouge sharpening is an excellent starting point for any new turner.

Doug may not be a star performer on camera but his gouge sharpening advice is very worth extracting from his presentation.

Sharpening Woodturning Tools - Doug Thompson - YouTube

The video covers various turners tools, the section on bowl gouges is the most useful.

Very experienced woodturner, Glenn Lucas, also sells jig setting charts for all of the well known jigs to get his preferred bowl gouge profiles.

Jig sharpening chart for bowl turning signature tools - Glenn Lucas Master Woodturner

I use turning tools with carbide cutters. I prefer a diamond stone and sharpening by hand. An old magazine article said that a variable speed wood lathe makes re-sharpening pretty easy. Simply glue some high grit sandpaper onto a sanding disc face plate.