Sharpening wooden moulding plane blades

**JDarvall** · 3rd August 2005, 10:06 AM

Thanks everyone..

Originally Posted by LineLefty

Apricot,
OR if you had an existing moulding you couldlay sandpaper over it........

There's one inherent problem I think with the idea of sharpening from an already planed profile. I understand where the idea came from, and up to recently I thought the idea would work to. But, really I think the idea has to be abandoned.

Unlike straight edged blades a profiled blade will change as the angle it presents to the wood changes. I'll attach some pictures to show my point.

Yesterday I managed(only just) to get a larger profile going. It has deeper valleys and hills than most, so it should show my point better. See picture 1.

In picture 2 I've removed the plane body from the picture and just braced the blade at 50 degrees, which is the bed angle for the plane. ie. the effective pitch ; the angle the blade cuts at. Right ?

However, we don't sharpen blades at their Effective pitches. We sharpen at about 30 (or whatever) degrees right ? So, I've dropped the angle to about 30 degrees. Braced it at that point, and taken a photo of it which is picture 3. In particular, look at that sharp spur part of the blade on the left. It no longer touches the wood.
If we were to coat a pre-cut profile with some abrasive, like a compound or sandpaper, and took our blade to it, we'd only get an edge if you were willing to accept sharpening it at its bed angle ! 50 degrees in this case. Try and sharpen it any lower and the hills (like that spur) wont get any attention what so ever.
And of course you can't sharpen it at its bed angle. It just won't work, because when you put it back into the plane you'll have no clearence between the bevel and the wood you planing. The blade will just skip all the time. It just wouldn't work.

Now, I reakon the idea of sharpening a blade off a pre-cut moulding may work but only if it was the profile you get when you lower it to 30 degrees. But how could you ever plane out a profile like that? Your plane only cuts at 50 degrees......get my drift?

**LineLefty** · 3rd August 2005, 11:31 AM

Yeah I think I get what you mean. Theres never an easy way is there?

**sinjin1111** · 3rd August 2005, 03:33 PM

I know this is not in the feel of the thread. But you can do this sort of thing with 3D CAD packages pretty easily.
The idea being to draw your unground piece of steel at the required angle.
Then project the 2D profile shape onto the blade and remove the area below the projected profile shape.
The other method depending on the type of CAD package you have is to once again draw your plane blade at the correct angle. And then draw a 3D profile you like. and subtract one solid from the other.
Sinjin

**TassieKiwi** · 3rd August 2005, 04:50 PM

Good thread 'trip. Very understandable. I guess you could grind the profile on the shaped wood (ie in teh plane at 50deg), then grind your 30 bevel to this line with your method? Not sure why you'd bother tho:confused:

**routermaniac** · 3rd August 2005, 07:34 PM

good work jake, really good stuff

**JDarvall** · 4th August 2005, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by routermaniac

good work jake, really good stuff

Ta mate.

I reakon I deserve something in return for all that hard work eh .... maybe you could pass the hat around and buy me a new tool

Heard those new LA smoothers are just fab. My birthdays in January you know.

Anyway, are you guys really interested ? or are you all humoring me ?
I enjoy talking about this stuff. Find it very interesting. Have more stuff to talk about. But I prefer not to say a thing if all I do is sound like a 'show off' . Cause thats the last thing I want to do. Just want more people to use these tools, before their buried too deep under all this power tool jargon, and nobody knows how to use them anymore.

**MikeW** · 4th August 2005, 09:06 PM

I would like you to continue, Jake.

I've got 'em. I use 'em. They are almost the only types of planes that have that sound when they cut, know what I mean? Still love the sound of the shaving. Like talking about as well.

You've even inspired me a bit to work on the couple I've got that need attention. Thanks. Mike

**JDarvall** · 4th August 2005, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by MikeW

I would like you to continue, Jake.

I've got 'em. I use 'em. They are almost the only types of planes that have that sound when they cut, know what I mean? Still love the sound of the shaving. Like talking about as well.

You've even inspired me a bit to work on the couple I've got that need attention. Thanks. Mike

Thankyou Mike. Yep. I know that sound alright. Especially those first few strokes after sharpening.

I have plenty to learn myself. I'm discovering a lot at the moment. Quite exciting stuff. I've purchased a few boxes of old tools. Many of which at the time I couldn't identify. I'm slowly working my way through them. I got them all at a local Auction.
This old bloke had a huge woodworking collection for sale. We live in a country town, and I feel for the bloke, because all these wonderfully restored old tools went for a pitence. He should have gone to Brisbane, or at least some place larger. He should have got at least 4 time more for it all than he ended up getting.
So I ended up with boxes of old stuff. Still kicking myself about some of the tools I let go. A no.55 went for just $185 AU !!! I mean, the thing was in an excellent condition. If I had have known how possible it was to sharpen its blades, as I do now, I would have paid up to $400. Such is life.

Anyhow, I'll continue taking photo's while I work and post my ideas as I get a chance. But, please. Don't hold back if you see something wrong in what I say. I rather fix it sooner than later.

**MikeW** · 5th August 2005, 03:20 AM

Anyhow, I'll continue taking photo's while I work and post my ideas as I get a chance. But, please. Don't hold back if you see something wrong in what I say. I rather fix it sooner than later.

Well, I have what some would call a bad habit of speaking my mind. I seldom mean any harm by it, but some take it that way. I have a feeling you wouldn't though.

So yep, I would speak up. What you are doing is the same thing I have done. Read about it on the net someplace when the net was BB-based. All text. Hard to follow just the written thing. Made a lot of mistakes. So I think the photo documentation along with the text has been excellent should someone want a go at it. Which I would recommend.

In fact, I'm not aware of a book that has really shown someone how to do this, especially with modern grinding equipment. So this has been great.

I still have the first (well, one of my sons do) cabinet I made the moldings for. All curves produced by the hollow and rounds of a couple sizes with a bead at the bottom.

Those hollow and rounds I think are the easiest to reshape I think if someone wants to try this, too. Not as complicated to get the arcs right as even a simple profile. But anybody can get good results following this series of "Molding Planes by Jake." And like you've mentioned, they are usually cheap, even if it is a single plane somewhere.

I mean, how much more fun can it get? Couple hours in the shop at worst playing before those first curlies come peeling off, with that strong sound of wood being sliced off.

Makes me wanna go out and have a go myself.

Mike

**JDarvall** · 5th August 2005, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by MikeW

Well, I have what some would call a bad habit of speaking my mind. I seldom mean any harm by it, but some take it that way. I have a feeling you wouldn't though.
Mike

No, don't worry about offending. Mike. Let it rip. Around where I live talking like that is normal, to the point it feels awkward any other way.

Originally Posted by MikeW

I mean, how much more fun can it get? Couple hours in the shop at worst playing before those first curlies come peeling off, with that strong sound of wood being sliced off.

Makes me wanna go out and have a go myself.

Mike

Geeez , we're easily entertained arn't we ?

.

No, I agree its a real pleasurable thing to do. The problem is trying to show these methods can also be practical. In my opinion, unless your intent on ripping out miles and miles of profile, its more than practical once you get over the sharpening problems. Especially for the detailed work of fine cabinets and the like.

I've got an idea of showing some no.50's I've got. Many think, like other combination planes, that their useless because of the tearout problems, but I think their fine if you backbevel the blades, to reduce tearout. (Even if you don't backbevel the blades their often ok anyway I think). Also you don't have to conform to strict profile requirements like you do with wooden planes. Makes sharpening much, much easier. I might start up a thread on that, but not for a while. I'm getting into a little strife at home at the moment because I'm spending too much time on the computer.

Anyway, I'll catch up with you latter.

Jake.

**AlexV** · 31st August 2009, 01:51 AM

Hello everyone,

I just procured myself a stanley 55(fleamarket find) and was wondering about sharpening the blades aswell. I'll admit I had the same Idea about using existing moulding until I read your post, apricotripper. But I think It could still work.

If you have some of the moulding and added some kind of drying putty (like plaster) on it. then passing your blade at the correct angle over it, creating the correct profile. This should fill in all the spots that would otherwise miss the blade. after it dries just add the sandpaper and pass the blade on it at the exact same angle...

The only problem I can see is the thickness of the sandpaper changing the profile...

How were moulding planes sharpened 'back in the day'??

thanks,
Alex

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