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  1. #151
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    Apr 2007
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    Adelaide Hills, South Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post

    My comment was... aimed at... all who see this as a "get sharper" method. It is not. It is a "stay sharp" method.
    And, from my limited experience, doing that "quicker" than other methods I might readily and economically have available to achieve a "stay sharp" (tertiary) nano-bevel.

    Set me straight anyone if there is a quicker method of doing that?
    Stay sharp and stay safe!

    Neil



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  3. #152
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    US
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    2,184

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    I'm not aware of anything faster. About 30 seconds for a chisel and maybe 1 minute for a plane iron (one has to physically do the actual work, and on about double the edge length, so it just ends up being more time - plus on a plane, it's not a bad idea to work the back a little longer since there's wear there).

    But to answer the question about anything else that can be done -to make sure that it's not just shallower angles and steep tiny microbevels, I did try those. Around 34 degrees, edge failure stops. If a bevel of that size gets large, it's harsh getting it through wood if you're doing something like cutting half blinds, so the compromise to do the same thing as the unicorn method , just straw numbers here - not an obligation, and go, say 20 degrees on the grind, 23 on the secondary bevel and then a third bevel of 34 degrees that's only about a few thousandths in chord (and removed each time honing is done).

    IT's almost as good, but you have to be able to make the tiny bevel easily and in a way that is as fine to match the buffer - it's just less work to use the buffer and the hard shoulder on a microbevel seems to make it cut a little more harshly. The key is to make the microbevel tiny if going after this, though.

    The other thing that's doable is a very slow stone and rounding the tip by hand (but it still takes more time and the edge will be finished a little less well). Autosol on wood would be a good way to do this as it wouldn't leave a considerable foil.

    I sharpened with the "mini roll over" for years and sent a couple of chisels to people who later said "they chip when I resharpen them and use them". the mini-roll had two points - to make sure the finish stone is working the tip, and to get better edge holding. You can't make a dent with this kind of stuff, though - you'll get links to WBW's chisel review or something showing that what you observe is wrong - but I get that through youtube where people don't know how stubborn I am or suspect i'm new at this. Somehow, the buffer overcomes the idea that this isn't stupid (the tip roll is really easy to execute, but there's too much out there about how "it's not sharp" and I saw a couple of comments on cosman's videos "Have you seen unicorn sharpening? It rounds over the tip". Cosman's response is "then it doesn't sound possible that it'll be as sharp".

    He's giving his honest opinion - just the way it is.

    I think the understanding of the geometry (that the microbevel instead of being a big stripe, if someone wants to use one, it can be on top of a shallower bevel and be tiny, and slightly steeper) is more important than the buffer use or not, but my opinion might change if you gave me a box with 25 kitchen knives in it to finish.

  4. #153
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    295

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    I'm going to give this method a shot. Any recommendations for a suitable mop and compound to buy?

    Would something like this do? https://www.bunnings.com.au/josco-150mm-stitched-rag-polishing-buff_p6310313
    I know Josco is pretty low end. Just wondering whether I should be looking for something softer or a different material

  5. #154
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    10,383

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    Details here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ornMethod.html



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  6. #155
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    295

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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    Thanks
    You mentioned you replaced that white wheel with a soft stitched wheel. That white wheel looks like a soft stitched wheel?

  7. #156
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    AU
    Posts
    25

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    Quote Originally Posted by yoboseyo View Post
    Thanks
    You mentioned you replaced that white wheel with a soft stitched wheel. That white wheel looks like a soft stitched wheel?
    I believe that "white wheel" was referring to the AlOx grinding wheel.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  8. #157
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    295

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    Quote Originally Posted by addyau View Post
    I believe that "white wheel" was referring to the AlOx grinding wheel.
    D'oh!

    What color rouge should I use? I'm looking at the following range:
    Polishing and Buffing COMPOUNDS & SOLUTIONS | Caswell Australia

  9. #158
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    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Get the white. That's what I use.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  10. #159
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    May 2019
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
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    Just another question: do you touch it up on the grinder again between uses, or do you have to rehone the edge on the 1000 grit stone every time? When you rehone, do you go until you feel a burr (like you would as usual)?

  11. #160
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    10,383

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    When the blade dulls, I go back to the stones, not the grinder. You just need to remove the wear.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  12. #161
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    AU
    Posts
    25

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    I've got a quick question. What is the purpose in this case of the secondary bevel?
    If the chisel is hollow ground to 20degrees, then a secondary bevel at 3-5degrees, then hone on buffing wheel, what would be the outcome if the after grinding to 20 or 25degrees, we just go to the medium stone at the same angle and then hone on buffing wheel?
    The reason I ask this is because I'm still getting the feel for freehand sharpening and sharpening on the stone at the same angle as the hollow allows for a nice and easy registration.

    Addy

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  13. #162
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Age
    42
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    490

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    Not to derogate from anyone who has had better results elsewhere but I use that wheel and a regular green Josco stick (because I already had it around) and it has worked fine.

    Frankly the edges are so fast, sharp and durable off it that I have stopped thinking about ways to improve.

    A good use I've found from the second spindle on a dedicated buffer is a loose cloth used for finishing. I use it to finish small items by buffing in Shellawax (which reputedly requires a friction buff) or just regular Shellac. I've also used it for finish sanding items with Yorkshire grit (although will be trying the Australian product, Kustom Grit, soon).

    Quote Originally Posted by yoboseyo View Post
    I'm going to give this method a shot. Any recommendations for a suitable mop and compound to buy?

    Would something like this do? Josco 150mm Stitched Rag Polishing Buff - Bunnings Australia
    I know Josco is pretty low end. Just wondering whether I should be looking for something softer or a different material

  14. #163
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    May 2019
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    295

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    So how can you tell if the unicorn edge needs to be rehoned?

  15. #164
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoboseyo View Post
    So how can you tell if the unicorn edge needs to be rehoned?
    The same way you tell when any edge is dull Sorry ...

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  16. #165
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    507

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    After several more months of dinking around with the buffer, I love the method. I did decide that a fairly aggressive, fast cutting compound produces much more consistent results for me.

    Low quality compounds which are mostly wax are basically a train wreck. The ones that came "Free" with other kits were useless.

    I ended up liking the stuff auto body and industrial buffing guys use. It's high quality, but still surprisingly cheap. I think DW and Derek use a fast cutting white Emory commercial buffing compound. I ended up with Kocur yellow - which is fast cutting and dry, not waxy, but still loads the buff very quickly.

    Ultra fine compounds like Veritas green and Flexcut yellow work too slowly and result in a lower edge life.. Probably because of less bevel rounding.

    One of the big benefits I see here is removing any remnants of wire edge. Those little fluffy, flaky bits of steel wreck an edge in record time.

    Another benefit is that the buffer lets you see if you aren't grinding enough damaged metal off. A few seconds of buffing clears out all the deformed steel and cracked bits previously concealed on the edge... It takes ten seconds to see when I don't do a good job of removing damaged metal, because it leaves a ragged mess if I don't.

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