Thread: Veritas Grinding Stand and jig

OK , quick update. I have ditched the Veritas jig (blade holder) for now and used an old chisel to set the grinding stand to approx 25 then manually ground the blade slowly back to 25. I then used a 300 stone, 800 stone, 1000, 6000 and finally 8000 to bring it back to a secondary bevel of 30 degrees. All looks fine, very sharp now. I guess it doesn't really matter if the primary is 25, 26, 27 etc as long as you hone the secondary to 30 (for me anyhow) it works fine. I believe this has a lot to do with protrusion. I have ordered a bevel finder gauge (which will be useful anyway for other things) to check protrusion angle as I want this jig to work for me, it will make the process easier.

Jeff, here is a jig I made to set bevel angles on that stand ...

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Regards from Perth

Derek

Using a magnetic digital angle cube should fix the problem of setting the grinding angle. Place the cube on the back of the blade and adjust the rest as needed. digital angle cube - Google Shopping

I too bought one of those grinding rests and after trying it once I gave up and it lives in a box somewhere gathering dust.

might also be worth checking whether your wheel runs true, by true i mean the surface is true to the stand AND the wheel has no eccentric movement. I've got a cheap grinder at home that there is some slight eccentric movement even with a CBN wheel mounted that causes me some grief. Took me ages to find the sweet spot with minimal movement, but like you end up finshing my chisels on wetstones so the slight variation isn't that much of an issue either. Just got to find a method that allows you to do things repeatable. As you say at the end of the day a degree or two off isn't going to be noticeable.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Using a magnetic digital angle cube should fix the problem of setting the grinding angle. Place the cube on the back of the blade and adjust the rest as needed. digital angle cube - Google Shopping

I too bought one of those grinding rests and after trying it once I gave up and it lives in a box somewhere gathering dust.

Chris, how do you do that with a grinding wheel? Curious minds want to know

Another alternative is the Tormek angle setter, which is what I use.



Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek, I found this somehow on Google but have re-visited and might give it a go, repeatability is what we all seek, especially when grinding! Thanks,

Jeff

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Jeff, here is a jig I made to set bevel angles on that stand ...

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Regards from Perth

Derek

This tool looks like a ripper! Not willing to go for a Tormek at this stage (or any probably!) but it would be handy for other items to sharpen. This gadget looks nifty though, hoping the bevel box can do this (sort of!)

Thanks, yeah new wheel, alu oxide, 150mm, fast RPM grinder so have to go very slow, took me upwards of 30mins the other day to re-grind a 38mm chisel to 25, still, it is sharp now after honing! Is it worth getting a slow-speed grinder for this purpose do you think??

Hello, yes well I paid 55 ish dollars for it and hate it when things don't work! Hence my stubborn determination to get this working properly, I WILL dammit and post my success/failure here! But yes, the cube bevel box looks good at any rate so.....
Thanks,
Jeff

OK, another frustrating update! I have the bevel finder (digital) and after much fiddling today I set the angle on the stand from an older chisel with factory grind at 25. The bevel gauge (digital) states 37.25 which when I free-grind on the stand seems to produce something very close to 25 degrees on the chisel bevel!! This has me perplexed and makes no sense whatsoever. So if I want a 25 degree bevel I set the stand to 37.25! And this is taking the jig out of the equation, just resting chisel on edge and grinding as per photo. Thoughts?? For the record I have tried testing with my Veritas honing guide set at both 25 and 30 and I get 25 and 30 sitting on the bench (or stone) so THAT makes sense!!
Jeff

Yeah. I did question using a digital gauge on a round wheel. It does not compute that simply since you are dealing with a 3-D arrangement and not a 2-D positioning.

Far better to use my jig or the Tormek. This aligns all at the same time, regardless of the height and incline angle of the rest in relation to the section of the wheel (where each section on the circumference is a different angle).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Yeah. I did question using a digital gauge on a round wheel. It does not compute that simply since you are dealing with a 3-D arrangement and not a 2-D positioning.

Far better to use my jig or the Tormek. This aligns all at the same time, regardless of the height and incline angle of the rest in relation to the section of the wheel (where each section on the circumference is a different angle).

Regards from Perth


Derek

Thanks Derek. There are many you tube videos which make this look like childs play, place the Veritas angle finder at 25, lock off stand, place chisel in jig so middle touches wheel and Viola, you have a 25 degree ground bevel! BS! It is more complicated than this (for me at least!) My method might work OK I guess, nothing should change "dramatically". I will keep at it.
Jeff

Jeff and Chris, you're battling against geometry here, and short of getting extremely lucky, you will never get the angle you want using a digital gauge. And even if you do now, it won't last as your wheel wears.

Let's examine this to try and explain why. Assume a chisel that is 5 mm thick.

If you set your sharpening platform to 25°, with the top of the platform at the edge of your 200 mm grinding wheel, and exactly level with the centre line, you will get a 21° bevel, owing to the round wheel and hollow grind.

1.png

Now consider that it is impractical to mount your platform top touching the wheel, and your wheel will get smaller over time (if a friable wheel). In the scenario below, we move the platform about 4 mm away from the wheel. The chisel needs to slide up further to touch the grinding wheel further around its radius, reducing the angle to about 13°

3.png

If your platform isn't quite high enough, and you set it up a little below the centre line, you're going to get an increased angle, as the intersect angle with the wheel has changed again. The illustration below shows that when setting up 20 mm below the centre line and once again touching the wheel, you get an angle of roughly 40°.

2.png

As you can see, the platform height and distance from the wheel play an integral part in establishing the bevel angle. And even then, you will get a different total angle between a thick mortice and thin bench chisel owing the the hollow grind. This is why the simplest methods for most people are to adjust the platform to match an existing chisel, or as Derek posted, use a simple jig.

I hope that sheds some light on your struggles.

The tolerances on those bevel boxes are not very tight, from memory they are +-2 degrees depending on how good your bevel box is. Which means you could be up to 4 degrees off from when you last set it.