Thread: Waterstone problem

RV

You may well have a point in the flushing frequency of the stones during the flattening process.

I had a small brain wave today, well, for me anyway. A while ago I invested in a jeweller's loupe although I doubt whether any self-respecting jeweller would use mine. I bough a set of three delivered from Hong Kong for just under $9, so I am under no illusions about their optical qualities, but they suffice for my purposes. I can see the edge of the blade and whether I have a mountain range.

Anyhow I decided to look at the water stones with the loupe (30x) and when I did I was able to see significant clogging. I could compare both sides of the two coarse stones and of course the unused edges. So I would say that is part of what happened with my flattening process.

I am often using our very dense Aussie hardwoods so this is the reason I have to repair damaged edges with the coarse stone.


Regards
Paul

Very useful observation, Paul. I'm wondering what the effect of increased flushing might be during the actual sharpening process, say, doing up a blade from a spokeshave. A few strokes, a scrub, flush well, go again. It can't be much different from the lapping/flattening process.
Swarf seems to be easily suspended in the oil for my oil stones, gray gravy, and I do sop that up with paper towel during the sharpening process for things like small hand axes. I've been using a brass bristle BBQ brush with fresh oil and there certainly is a noticible difference.

Wondering if one of those cheapo ultrasonic cleaners (e.g. Aldi) would work for unclogging stones? I keep meaning to get one, but every time our local Aldi have them they sell out straight away.

I've used these cleaners in a past life for industrial applications, and they are amazingly effective even just using water.

I use the carbide grit on plate glass for flattening my really coarse stones - nothing else really has much effect on the Sigma #120 anyway..... When it has a fresh, unclogged surface, it absolutely eats A2 steel for breakfast.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Ben

The problem is that I wanted to retain the coarse stones as coarse stones. Now one side, which I hadn't previously used, of each stone is coarse, but the other side is much finer.

Yes , I was lucky with the gifts. I ended up with 1200, 4500, 6000, 8000 & 10000. The 300 stone I bought at a later date for doing exactly what I was attempting last Saturday: Remdial work following a major regrind and prior to final honing.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul

A couple of observations, hopefully that will make life easier for you ..

Firstly, you are using too many waterstones. This not only confuses and increases the sharpening effort but clutters the bench! I would only use the 1200, 6000 and 10000. I may revise this on knowing which brands you have.

It is also relevant to know the method you use to sharpen - if honing a full bevel face, I would use the three waterstones, but if you hollow grind I might only require two, the 1200 and the 10000.

Flattening should be done regularly and much more frequently than you do - this keeps the stones clean and they work at their optimum level. I do this after each blade - just a couple of light strokes. Indeed, I am more interested in clean surfaces than flat stones.

Get yourself an appropriate diamond stone for flattening the waterstones and dedicate it for that purpose. Do not use it on steel (it will wear out). Something in the region of 225 grit ("Extra Coarse"), about 8" (preferably 10") in length. A couple of swipes as you work will amaze you!

Consider anything to do with sharpening to be a consumable. Use it up! Why persevere with a conservative approach that only promises half-honed edges? It will still last many years and cost cents/day when you average it out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

Wondering if one of those cheapo ultrasonic cleaners (e.g. Aldi) would work for unclogging stones? I keep meaning to get one, but every time our local Aldi have them they sell out straight away.

I've used these cleaners in a past life for industrial applications, and they are amazingly effective even just using water.

Mr B they sound like a "too useful not to have" item with many potential applications (within/out the workshop). If you get onto the Aldi email list they'll send you a reminder on the day of the sale (you set up the reminder for whenever you want). Very useful for the "have to be quick" items.

i would like to say thanks Paul as I have previously suffered from a fear of flattening. My observations from this morning are

1. the water stones up to 1 thousand did well with wet and dry on ex kitchen bench top material and got "flat". 10mm glass nup.
2. Any thing over one thousand even though using the same method I couldn't get flat.Ranging from hollow in the middle to lower at one end across 3 different stones. I am thinking this is a technique issue ( but how hard is it really?)
3.Nothing really touched the sigma 400. Maybe trying the sic grains as recommended would help
when i get back from dads taxi duty i will try the diamond stone option.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Paul

A couple of observations, hopefully that will make life easier for you ..

Firstly, you are using too many waterstones. This not only confuses and increases the sharpening effort but clutters the bench! I would only use the 1200, 6000 and 10000. I may revise this on knowing which brands you have.

Although I have all these stones, I don't use them all. It was the result of an over exuberant response to a request one Xmas (I should complain? I don't think so ). All the stones are from Carbatec so they are King stones. Probably very average quality.

It is also relevant to know the method you use to sharpen - if honing a full bevel face, I would use the three waterstones, but if you hollow grind I might only require two, the 1200 and the 10000.

I hollow grind the bevels.

Flattening should be done regularly and much more frequently than you do - this keeps the stones clean and they work at their optimum level. I do this after each blade - just a couple of light strokes. Indeed, I am more interested in clean surfaces than flat stones.

Guilty as charged. I leave far too long an interval between flattenings .

Get yourself an appropriate diamond stone for flattening the waterstones and dedicate it for that purpose. Do not use it on steel (it will wear out). Something in the region of 225 grit ("Extra Coarse"), about 8" (preferably 10") in length. A couple of swipes as you work will amaze you!

My large diamond stone on this basis is useless as it is twenty years old and worn out. I only use it to sharpen TC router cutters now.

Consider anything to do with sharpening to be a consumable. Use it up! Why persevere with a conservative approach that only promises half-honed edges? It will still last many years and cost cents/day when you average it out.

Noted. I must become less miserly .

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for your input Derek.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Pac man

i would like to say thanks Paul as I have previously suffered from a fear of flattening.

I think that is why I too left the operation so long before dealing with it and of all my mistakes that was the fundamental problem .

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Noted. I must become less miserly

In which case you should exchange some of your generosity of spirit to others, for generosity of tools to yourself.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Hi Paul

I'll leave it for others to comment on the majority, but for checking the flatness of the stones, run a pencil squiggle over it, and flatten until the pencil has gone.

I did this but the result was that the majority of stones were not flat when a straight edge was placed on them. Only thing that was flat was my mood. Am i expecting too much, does the stone need to be flatter than pencil marks gone?

Where do you get your glass or tile or whatever? Had 2 pieces of glass hardly used but now not flat. Picture me wandering round the tile aisle in green shed with a straight edge - no luck.

Originally Posted by Pac man

Only thing that was flat was my mood.

Jeez, I dunno. Did you bend the stones? Ummm, what you were using wasn't flat? The latter seems reasonably unlikely to have a big effect because you are moving the stones over it, if you get my gist.

Is the straight-edge reliable?

I'm using a sheet of 600x500 granite that I've carried through 8-10 house moves before finally finding a using for it (actually there were 8 sheets). Maybe have a look and discuss next Sunday.

2 LV straight edges which are normally reliable were used.

Pretty much used the same technique for the first few minutes in this video

Sharpening plane Irons Part 2: Flattening stones. - YouTube

This always puzzles me a bit ... with oilstones you can just use them on each other, one in each hand ...

mathematically/theoretically, any two surfaces moved over each other in parallel will make each other flat.

Here's a guy using the gridded back of a ceramic tile ... (Sharpening Stone Care: How to flatten your stones on the cheap - YouTube)

If nothing else, re-penciling and re-checking a few times is probably a good idea.

Cheers,
Paul