Thread: Waterstone tests: a taster from Stu of toolsfromjapan.com

My mistake above, the local JET shop supplies the full Veritas lap kit and laminate sheets, and I thought they came together. You can buy the sheets separately.

Appears to me that Carbatec don't supply the sheets, only the V. lap kit

I've been flattening king water stones with wet and dry paper on float glass for years, and honestly have never had a problem with glue or grain embedded in the stone has anyone else? It keeps the stones plenty flat enough to sharpen a blade.

any update Stu?

I've never used sandpaper to flatten a stone. Not successfully anyway.

There's a key difference between you saying "It's ok" and me saying the same thing.

If you say it's fine, and something does happen, then a case of "oh, that's too bad. Sorry!" is probably enough.

If I say it's fine (and I have before, which is why I'm vehemently against it now) and something happens, postage is between 600-1400 yen for a waterstone plus the cost of a replacement stone, whatever it may be.

Chances are nothing will ever happen, but the problem is that diamond plates do a superior job for much longer, and are long term cost effective. Loose grit on glass/kanaban/steel is about the same price as sandpaper short term, works better and there's really no caveat. It's the 'proper' way to do it, and the only proper way before diamond plates came around.

There is one system that actually uses sandpaper, but the paper is specially designed stuff so it won't infect the stone with something. And it's not even remotely cost effective.


If you want to flatten your stones with sandpaper, go right ahead. I won't do it (I have 4 diamond plates now, just so I never run out!) and I cannot in good conscience condone it.

Heck, if yer that hard up, you get some glass and I'll provide the grit.

Originally Posted by Pac man

any update Stu?

I wish.

I had some trouble trying to work out the best way to present the data/findings. Initially, it would be a case of each stone presented on it's own, which would be fine, but comparing the stones is the trick, so I'll be presenting their performance on the different blades/steels as a single 'test' and then at the end, doling out merits and demerits on each stone.

Besides which, I was rather busy last week. Made a snap decision to go see some folks who've been known to make a few planes now and then.

If you know anyone who likes Japanese tools, mention Tsunesaburo to them.


And folks, you have absolutely no idea of how privileged I was to go there, see what I saw, do what I did and leave with what I left with. I'm still shocked by the potential implications.

Originally Posted by Schtoo

I've never used sandpaper to flatten a stone. Not successfully anyway.

There's a key difference between you saying "It's ok" and me saying the same thing.

If you say it's fine, and something does happen, then a case of "oh, that's too bad. Sorry!" is probably enough.

If I say it's fine (and I have before, which is why I'm vehemently against it now) and something happens, postage is between 600-1400 yen for a waterstone plus the cost of a replacement stone, whatever it may be.

Chances are nothing will ever happen, but the problem is that diamond plates do a superior job for much longer, and are long term cost effective. Loose grit on glass/kanaban/steel is about the same price as sandpaper short term, works better and there's really no caveat. It's the 'proper' way to do it, and the only proper way before diamond plates came around.

There is one system that actually uses sandpaper, but the paper is specially designed stuff so it won't infect the stone with something. And it's not even remotely cost effective.


If you want to flatten your stones with sandpaper, go right ahead. I won't do it (I have 4 diamond plates now, just so I never run out!) and I cannot in good conscience condone it.

Heck, if yer that hard up, you get some glass and I'll provide the grit.

I'm not sure whether the above was aimed at Me, or anyone else using wet & dry..
It's fair enough, You have to look after Your "bread & butter", but that doesn't mean the wet & dry method isn't effective. I'd like to hear how it was unsuccessful for You?

Like I said before, I've never had personally, or even heard of anyone having trouble with glue or grain from wet & dry paper.
I'm not hard up at all, I run a custom furniture company in Japan, and we keep our stones perfectly flat with paper, and if one keeps their stones in good condition, just a few strokes after sharpening are needed to keep the stone flat. A piece of wet & dry lasts a good while and hardly costs anything.
I'm stuck in my ways, and if it works, I'm not one to change

underused - sorry to have to report, but I've also found wet & dry to be hopeless for keeping stones flat. Have you ever put a straightedge across your flattened stones??

Several other posters on various threads have reported similar problems - you end up abrading the ends/edges of the stone more than the middle.

Of course, your mileage may vary, but I've found a large diamond plate to be far more effective at keeping stones really flat. Not sure I'd buy one just for that job, but I bought diamond plates for general sharpening/bevel grinding, so to me its just one more use for the things.

Yes, it's never been a problem keeping them flat.

Well....good for you

Originally Posted by underused

I'm not sure whether the above was aimed at Me, or anyone else using wet & dry..
It's fair enough, You have to look after Your "bread & butter", but that doesn't mean the wet & dry method isn't effective. I'd like to hear how it was unsuccessful for You?

Like I said before, I've never had personally, or even heard of anyone having trouble with glue or grain from wet & dry paper.
I'm not hard up at all, I run a custom furniture company in Japan, and we keep our stones perfectly flat with paper, and if one keeps their stones in good condition, just a few strokes after sharpening are needed to keep the stone flat. A piece of wet & dry lasts a good while and hardly costs anything.
I'm stuck in my ways, and if it works, I'm not one to change

It didn't work, but that was because I tried it with a very hard stone. One of the very first ceramic stones, that makes today's versions look like chalk.

Other than that, I've never used it. The advice to me from the folks who make the stones was not so much "no, don't do it!" than it was a sucking through the teeth and a cock of the head and "saaaa" kind of reply. Being in Japan, you should know what I'm talking about.

(If you're not in Japan, that kinda answer means "well, it might work but I think you're nuts to do it. Good luck!)

It can and does work to a degree, but there is a risk there of causing problems. My own personal point of view is that if it works, great. But at the same time, I don't know of any stone maker who condones it, aside from Norton.

To a point, Naniwa, Sigma and Suehiro offer conditioning and flattening stones. King assumes you'll use loose grit and Shapton offers their iron/grit lapping plate and a 2 different diamond versions as well as a conditioning stone that looks like a white hockey puck. There's the biggest 4 waterstone makers, none of them will tell you to use sandpaper and it's not because they are trying to sell you their own flattening stone...

If it's working for you, great. There's no real reason why it won't work, but there's no way on earth I'll do it just for the fun of it and to see what happens. Sorry.

-------

Good luck!

Thanks for sharing Your thoughts on the matter Schtoo
I guess this is one of those "what ever works for You" situations. Our blades are sharp and true enough for daily woodworking.
I don't think I'm mad or have been lucky to get away with it.
All the best with it

Are wet stones worth the trouble>
Mine has some how developed a bump! Tried the diamond tool, no diff. Do they all go like this if you leave them for a while?

Do You mean it's warped? Are You referring to water stones?
I haven't experienced any noticeable bending, bumping of our stones...but, they are always in use, so kept flat daily.
You mentioned You've tried flattening it with a diamond plate?
If You let us know more details, I'm sure someone here will put You right

Originally Posted by underused

Do You mean it's warped? Are You referring to water stones?
I haven't experienced any noticeable bending, bumping of our stones...but, they are always in use, so kept flat daily.
You mentioned You've tried flattening it with a diamond plate?
If You let us know more details, I'm sure someone here will put You right

sorry,prob got it wrong again. I have a wet stone grinder that has developed a bump. After not using it for about a month I turned it on and it was like ridding a big dipper with one bump. No water was kept in the tank and it was covered. no matter what I tried I can not get the bump out. needless to say I do not use it now and only use my dry grinder. What have I done wrong???