Thread: Wet/dry grinder or bench stones for sharpening

Well, this Scary Sharp method is not exactly fast when your rehabbing a tool but after that is quicker esp when you've done a hollow regrind with a wheel and all that's needed is the 2ndary bevel.

+ is the glass is flat and you can use cheap jigs like an Eclipse or Stanley.

Originally Posted by rsser

Well, this Scary Sharp method is not exactly fast when your rehabbing a tool but after that is quicker esp when you've done a hollow regrind with a wheel and all that's needed is the 2ndary bevel.

+ is the glass is flat and you can use cheap jigs like an Eclipse or Stanley.

Yes, the need for a jig is another important point. So far I have considered using one beneath me but maybe for square chisels and plane blades it is necessary? Using one for moulding plane blades seems impossible to me, but that could just be my ignorance.

I can see how folk can do a chisel of middling to large size by hand but a plane blade?

I have a spare Eclipse you're welcome to F&E.

As for moulding blades, maybe a slipstone?

I love my Tormek, but I have had a number of "debates" with the US representative of Tormek, who insists on calling it a sharpener" while I insist on it being seen to be a grinder. This is not simply a different choice of words to mean the same thing.

He argues that the Tormek is a sharpening system since the honing wheel will convert the 1000 gritted grind to a 8000 grit edge. I argue that this may be so, but I would not use it (others might, not me) on wood if I want a good finish. There is more to sharpening and preparing an edge - be it chisel or plane blade - than simply "sharp".

"Sharp" is for me synonymous with "smooth" - a smooth edge is a sharp edge. As you go up the grit ratings, so you create an ever increasing smooth edge, that is, the edge serrations become smaller and smaller. This transfers to your wood, and the finish is smoother as well.

There is a second factor. Taking an edge off a 1000 grit wheel and honing it on a 8000 wheel strop does not produce a flat edge. The edge may be 8000, it may feel sharp (cut arm hair) etc, but it can be curved/serrated/grooved, etc.

Instead one should take the edge off a Tormek (or any grinder) and smooth/straighten it out on a flat waterstone (or sandpaper, etc). I go to a 1000 Shapton for this. But if you are doing this, then there is NO NEED to go higher than 220 on the Tormek ... a big time saver!

... and so on to 8000, 12000, etc ... whatever you want.

But wait ... there is more!!!

Is a 12000 or 15000 or 30000 grit stone only for wankers?

No. Edges often fail, not because the steel is not strong enough, but because it is strong enough! This means that edges are more likely to chip than to bend. Chipping is more likely to occur where there are serrations, and the larger the serrations, the greater the propensity for chipping.

Soooooo .... the smaller the serrations, the less likely the chipping ... hence a higher grit sharpening will hold an edge longer thamn a lower grit sharpened blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Is there any microscopy Derek on your proposition that a coarser serrated edge is more likely to loose 'teeth' than a finer one, all other things equal?

Have I done this personally? No. But there are many references to it in a number of texts, such as (off the top of my head) Leonard Lee's "The complete guide to sharpening", which is pretty much the Bible.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Damn, now that Ern had convinced me I needed help and I have gone out and bought an expensive "Complete guide" to sharpening (Jim Kingshott), I discover that I got the wrong prayer book!

I have the new publication from Ron Hock, "The Perfect Edge". This looks a more readable book.

Once of the interesting points I have come across (only just begun reading) is the evidence he shows for better edges when side sharpening (which is one of the methods I have been advocating for some time).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

... better edges when side sharpening (which is one of the methods I have been advocating for some time).
...
Derek

What's side sharpening then?

Simply moving the iron from side to side instead of forward to back. It has been in use for decades (centuries) especially by the Japanese.

At the risk of hijacking the thread... why is side to side better?

Micro breaks expose new cutting edge rather than enlarge a serration. Sort of like one of those knives you snap the blade off to expose a new bit of blade. Here is a very short ad for a video by Harrelson Stanley that should give you the idea.[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU_3USQdaNw"].[/ame]

Good one Groggy.

A bit more info here ...

Side Sharpening and The Sharp Skate

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks, Groggy. Apart from the tacky music and "Peace and good woodwork" it does look interesting. I reckon it would be easier to keep the two sides of the hollow grind on the stone with a side ways movement without burring the edge.

I'll try it tomorrow!