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23rd February 2007, 09:42 PM #1
Need to make 3 x tables, bed, drawers, ent unit and can spend $2k on tools (domino)?
Good evening chaps,
As per the title I have a few projects to make over the next year. This includes (in order of priority):
1. Coffee table
2. Dining table (maybe buy the chairs)
3. Outdoor table
4. Entertainment unit
5. Bed
6. Drawers for bedroom
I reckon I can justify up to a couple of grand as the net savings will be impressive as we wondered around a couple of stores the other day. I already have:
- SCMS (and don't want a table saw no space)
- router (1/4" bosch)
- cordless and power drill
- veritas dovetail thingy
- enough saws
- stanley #4
- bosch ROS
- makita cs
- home built router table
- a useless dowel jig (so useless I use the metal point insert method and works ok.
- clamps
- stanley chisels (need to buy a few proper mortise ones)
And a few other bits and pieces. I know this is subjective but was after your opinions as to what I could justify (and how). Here are a couple of starters to get you going:
- Lots of joints to do, a domino is bloody expensive compared to a biscuit joiner (i've read all the comments on the forum) but sounds the dogs. Big joints I would M&T but I have loads of smaller joints and as I am not retired lack the time to do 100's of them.
- But then, I don't have a thicknesser or a planer so need to pay to get all my timber pre-finished my the mill, so maybe a better investment than the domino. And then.. to add to the confusion, if I am finishing timber then need a jointer as well (or maybe a few better planes).
- Bandsaw - takes up lots of space - will I use it?
Help....
Tom
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23rd February 2007, 09:49 PM #2
Dont forget a Gifkins Jig, Way good
If you want that hand cut look just wiggle them a bit when you are done to make them a bit gappy and then scripe a line down the side.
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23rd February 2007, 11:01 PM #3.
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I would spend the $2k on a domino and some really really nice DAR timber.
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23rd February 2007, 11:40 PM #4
Based on your list of projects and your time constraints, I believe a Domino will serve you well. Biscuit joiner is okay for panel glueing (sort of) but not up to joints that receive much stress. Just get your timber DAR and go for it.
[NB: AFAIK, there are no "chaps" on this forum, only blokes. A Code Violation is looming. ]Cheers,
Bob
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24th February 2007, 12:13 AM #5
Tom
In reality your router @¼" is too small. You really need a ½" variable speed model so you can mount it in a table and make some interesting moldings, cut the mortices you will need for the tables, and with a jig make all the dovetail joints you need. You can even cut the tenons with the router and the right jig.
you really need
- a table saw (even if it's an orange one) so that you can rip material to size – if you already have a saw you won't need to buy one for the table. But you need some accurate way of sizing your table tops and cutting the material you need for the entertainment unit, drawers, etc
- a thicknesser so that you don't have to sand your way to the timber thickness you want
- a jointer so that you can straighten the timber that warps in the weeks between when you buy it and use it.
The Domino is a very nice machine, but buying one will chew almost all of your budget.
I think you and your budget will be better off if you cut your mortices and size your tenons using a router (use a spiral bit for the mortices)
Then budget on a few good chisels (say 10mm, ½" and ¾" or the metric equivalents) and two good planes (a block and a bevel up smoother) plus sharpening gear.
ian
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24th February 2007, 01:05 AM #6
Tom, you sound like you know what you're on about.
Buy the Domino and a shipload of DAR. Get a joinery or local woodie to dimension it for you, join it and Bob's your uncle. Darksiding is a great hobby, but you sound like you want to make some furniture. You won't use chisels, in fact your money is probably better spent on quality glue and sandpaper. Pay attention to your choice of finish. Get a big belt sander. Buggerise around with planes when you're old and busted- electricity is what we use in Western Civilisation.
Better to have your feet up on something completed than to fidget in the shed. Go for your life.
Rusty.The perfect is the enemy of the good.
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24th February 2007, 07:41 AM #7Intermediate Member
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1] a domino
2] bigger router
3] belt sander
4] you said you had clamps. Does this include sash clamps? If not you will need a few.
5] could buy a slot cutter bit for your router to do biscuit joins for joining up your table tops.
6] maybe a jigsaw if you have any shaping to do but could survive without this.
NB. Lucky to get the above for under $2000.
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24th February 2007, 08:05 AM #8
Hmm... Belt sander - never thought of one of those. Does it sand quicker than my ROS, because even though it's a good one, it sure takes a long time to remove stuff.
I've solved the router problem. All this talk of a bigger router reminded me my father has a 1/2" makita he bought for one project. Might just have to permanent loan it...
I have sash clamps as I got sick of having to improvise with ropes/weight/other devices to join big bits together.
I have thought long and hard about the table saw dilemma. I bought the makita ls1214 6 months ago as that was my budget and I was not happy with the quality on the table saws I could buy for that price. Finish was poor, castings were not good quality and I'd rather wait until I have a larger garage (my garage is too small to fit my car in - and that's without tools). I decided to make a simple jig to enable ripping. Works ok - still a bit of planing to get the faces matched but not too bad.
Keep the suggestions coming - I'm going off to trend timbers and anagotes to source some coolibah or blackwood for the table....
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24th February 2007, 08:35 AM #9Intermediate Member
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Belt sanders much faster to sand with than a ROS. Biggest problem often is not taking too much wood off and need to practice quite a bit to keep going straight along the grain or else you get scratches and marks. Using a fine belt on the sander helps. Still will have lots of sanding to do after using the belt sander but think it would take you forever to sand a table top with a ROS. Enjoy your trip to the timber yards !
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24th February 2007, 09:12 AM #10
I wouldn't bother with a belt sander. Shaping timber with a belt sander is tricky and it is easy to take off too much. Much better to use DAR timber or get it dimensioned, and use the ROS for final smoothing. Also wouldn't bother with a biscuit jointer. Table tops are just as strong edge to edge, and easier to glue flat without biscuits. And they don't replace a tenon for strength. Those are two tools that now spend all their days gathering dust in my cupboard.
I think the tools you have would make mortise and tenon joinery very time consuming. Mortises can be cut on the router with some precision if you use a good jig (here is one) but tenons with a chop saw would be a challenge.
If you're on the north shore, you can give DIY DAN a call, and use his lovely table saw, jointer, thicknesser, bandsaw, etc. Then spend your $$ on the domino and good timber.
Oh, and get The Polisher's Handbook from the sponsor. A good finish can be the difference between and ordinary piece and a thing of beauty.
Tex
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24th February 2007, 09:56 AM #11
DIY Dan Workshop
Considering you are in Sydney I would look at what you can do at DIY Dan's workshop especially using the Felder sawtable and dressing timber and then buy based on tasks left and commonly used.
I would definitely go for a dovetail jig, seriously consider the Leigh D1600 and as previously mentioned a 1/2 inch router. A cheap biscuit jointer would never go astray but unnecessary if you go with the domino.
Does DIY Dan have a domino or is he considering getting one?
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24th February 2007, 10:03 AM #12
Your tool budget is too tight to blow it all buying a domi.
Whats the point of having 1 excellent tool while not having sufficient tools to do the other tasks that need to be done.
Buy a GOOD QUALITY dowel jig and a GOOD QUALITY set of bits.
Then you can use dowels effectively instead of wasting a lot of time messing with tenons until you are happy with your general woodworking skills.
I would put a thicknesser ahead of a domi any day
(oh btw I want a domi too)
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25th February 2007, 01:52 AM #13
Tom, why do you want to build all this stuff?
If you're planning on building yourself because the style, size or timber species is not available at a price you feel comfortable with, you really need to decide if the process of building is more important than the finished item or the other way round.
Compared to shopping at Ikea, the raw timber will almost certainly cost more than the finished product.
So if you want some new tools for the garage, go to Ikea, buy the finished item and spend the difference on the tools and don't feel that you need to justify the cost via DIY "savings".
If you plan on building with DAR from the local timber yard, then get yourself a decent pocket hole jig. It will allow you to quickly and simply make the bed and the three tables you want — The LS1012 is all you need to cut the timber to length with a square end. Again IKEA will sell you the sanded table tops for [probably] less than it will cost you to make them up.
Depending on the design, the entertainment unit and drawers could use a combination of pocket hole joinery, dovetails, or contrasting Miller dowells. All relatively inexpensive options compared to a Domino.
For myself, I really enjoy the process of building — getting an item in the style and timber species I want comes a close second. However, if I'm honest, there are never any savings compared to paying a professional to build the item I need in the species I want, only costs. Especially when you factor in the all the tooling my dad and I have purchased over the years. I estimate that the tools equates to at least 400 hours of a professional ww's time.
Looking at your list of existing tools and proposed projects, the additional items which I think will be most useful are (in order):
– a flat stable bench — on which to build the items you want to make
– a pocket hole jig (Kreg jigs start at $89) — for the reasons above
– a drum sander (Carbetec has one for $989) — probably the most efficient way to remove maching marks and any tearout from your DAR timber before you start cutting joints, etc. An alternative is to use a well set-up hand plane instead, at about half the cost.
– a shop vac and Triton bucket — a must to suck the dust away from the drum sander
– a long bed hand planner (like the Hitachi F30A which has a 410mm long bed) — this will allow you to readily put a taper on table legs and the like.
If you glue up your own table tops, you could finish them using the Hitachi planner set to take a very minimal cut, or a ROS, but the easiest way will be to take them to a cabinet shop and have them put it through their wide belt/drum sander.
ian
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25th February 2007, 02:58 AM #14
take a look at the beadlock system of joinery.
Using DIY Dans workshop is a fantastic option, if not:
I'd be going down to the local cabinetmaker and asking for a quote on getting your timber cut and dressed... take the plan/drawing and cutting list. Let them know all that you are intending to make.
I'd be doing the coffee table this way first, with the beadlock system for the leg/rail joinery, and doweling the top. Then taking stock of the process, what will be involved in the other items, and the finish you are able to achieve.... this might give you a few pointers as to what you might need to buy.
As for finishing timber.... if its been dressed for you, you should be able to get an excelent result with a good ROS, or stuff around with a scraper and sandpaper.... not sure what your Bosch is like. Using a jointer is ok, but it has a learning curve and you might not be willing to spend the time learning.
A bench and/or assembly table is pretty much essential... 2 x 1" thick mdf cover sheets on top of each other (6 x 3 foot size) with an edge strip all round and a masonite top slung on a simple frame is the go... should be under $150 if you scrounge a bit.
You can use the beadlock system for the tables, and you can use fairly simple joinery for the bed.... none of which means it has to look shabby.
If you were making the chairs I'd say that a bandsaw should be on top of the list.
Knock the tables up quickly, then bemoan the fact that you can't make the flash entertainment system without a domino and router table to the missus.... and see how you go!
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25th February 2007, 08:33 AM #15
As you can see, Tom, there are as many ways to joint timber as there are people doing it. You could build all you've got on your list with the tools you already have. Other tools will make some things easier for you, depending on what you're comfortable with or get comfortable with.
I read your first post as:
- I want to build furniture
- Don't have room for machinery
- Help me justify a domino
Hope we have done that for you.
Regards,
Tex