Thread: Alum Ion battery discovery has implications for power tools

If it is as good as they say the implications this has for electric vehicles and off grid energy storage is revolutionary.

It should eventually also force the price of Li cells down

Lithium stocks must have gone down overnight and the price of Aluminium must rise - good for Oz, not so good for Bolivia ?

Indeed Bob. My comment was just in the context of the forum, but the implication for hybrid cars is pretty big - quicker/more efficient to charge on the run and at stationary points. Less weight means less charge used as well. The flexibility would mean that they were are easier/possible to mould to panel shapes and safer in the case of accidents where the batteries are punctured.

I would have thought that disposal would be a bit less nasty than Lithium too (as well as a MUCH lower disposal rate).

Kinda puts the wind up Apple with their "do not allow recharge after xx months" chip inclusion. (I seem to remember that an iPhone battery is built in obsolete after 24 months precisely - not a particularly green philosophy).

Originally Posted by BobL

Lithium stocks must have gone down overnight and the price of Aluminium must rise - good for Oz, not so good for Bolivia ?

In which case Bolivia would do well to fund a research foundation to uncover all the undiagnosed BiPolar people in the world......

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Indeed Bob. My comment was just in the context of the forum, but the implication for hybrid cars is pretty big - quicker/more efficient to charge on the run and at stationary points. Less weight means less charge used as well. The flexibility would mean that they were are easier/possible to mould to panel shapes and safer in the case of accidents where the batteries are punctured.

Yep - that's what I was thinking.

I would have thought that disposal would be a bit less nasty than Lithium too (as well as a MUCH lower disposal rate)..

If things were being done properly they would both be recycled.

Kinda puts the wind up Apple with their "do not allow recharge after xx months" chip inclusion. (I seem to remember that an iPhone battery is built in obsolete after 24 months precisely - not a particularly green philosophy).

Yep godo point. My 3S is coming up for 5 years old and its still working OK for what I do.

Yawn. There's been a new battery breakthrough announced a few times a year for a while.

Wake me up when I can ACTUALLY BUY one.

Recharge times are only part of the story... especially for tools.

The supplier of cells to Bosch (Samsung??? Sanyo/Panasonic???) has been doing some fairly heavy R&D lately. Their latest 6.0ah batteries are now able to accept high current charge & discharge. Over 10 amps it's claimed! This is about twice that of current competitors. Their 6.0ah 36v pro batteries are now charging in 15-20 minutes!

High current cycling generates large amounts of heat radiation. I notice that at least for the 36v variety they have proper cast aluminium heat sinking on both battery & charger. Their bigger & heavier Pedelec batteries have been using alloy heatsinks for a few years now, but as far as I know it's a first for power tools.

The interesting thing is that the 18v 6.0ah batteries are still the same size & weight as their 2.6, 3.0, 4.0 & 5.0ah varieties. Where will it end?

I can see this newer tech in batteries filtering down through low current applications first: 'phones, laptops and the like. High drain applications have traditionally require extra R&D expenditure, although if you can get high current input (for quick charge times) then maybe it will be sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately, as with all new tech of this sort it means that existing technologies rapidly become redundant: tools, batteries and chargers. I simply couldn't afford to replace my existing cordless fleet in the forseeable future.

iPhone battery failure, not with mine bloke. I have the original first edition iPhone, battery has not clapped out or refused to charge.

DD

It may have taken a gen or two for them to get smart and stingy, dunno. Good on you for staying with a phone that works!

There's a bit of an Arms Race out there at the moment....

Makita went from 3.0-5.0ah in less than 12 months, and now have 6.0ah batteries. Even Festool are (finally) starting to offer 5.2ah batteries, although still not available locally.

Bosch have 10.8v 4.0ah cells available, and in 18 & 36v there's now 6.0ah high current batteries available, which should power the next generation of high current draw tools. Not before time: I've found some tools, notably cordless Miter & Circular saws and planers and the like to be little better than toys. High drain generates heat, which can at best compromise cell life, and at worst actually kill a battery if it exceeds safety parameters, causing a temperature overload circuit to permanently, irreversibly shut the battery down. Early Makita Li Ion batteries were particularly prone to this. Some of their tools overcompensated for this high current draw, with their cordless grinder in particular being one of the most frustrating cordless tools ever made to use. Those that have used one will know exactly what I mean.

The key here is high current. Superfast charging (10 mins.) and high current supply will allow a new "revolution" in cordless tools. High currents still generate heat, but this is dissipated with fairly high tech alloy & synthetic heat sinking, advanced ventilation, internal fans and super heavy duty internal busbars to even out individual cell loading.

Current leader seems to be Metabo, at least until the latest best thing comes along. They're now offering 6.2, 5.5 & 3.1ah batteries in the 18v class, and 2.0, 4.0 & 5.2ah in 10.8v. Significantly, there's no weight penalty here. For example a 3.1 ah battery has similar weight & dimensions of an older 1.3ah, and a 6.2ah is the same size & weight as a former 2.6ah battery.

That's a helluva lot of energy to pack into a small space. Heavy users will probably appreciate this high energy density, with less battery changes, less charges and increased overall battery life. Hobbyists probably won't benefit so much, which is probably why they're marketing three different battery sizes. The company itself appears confident: it's still one of the few to offer a complete 3 year warranty on their batteries.

Even more surprising is the new gen. of tools coming along to fully utilise these new cells. There's a new 18v grinder that, at least from the perspective of the demo film clip, can be actually leaned on in a way never before possible in a cordless grinder. There's also a 36v 9" grinder coming (2 x 18v batteries???) that Metabo claims has the same power output as their 240v 2400w grinder!

I'll say that again slowly.... nine inch grinder... two point four kilowatts of power.... no power cord. That's unprecedented. Just imagine the possible applications: big cordless grinders for remote sitework. Cordless SCMS with truly useful capacity and runtime. Cordless saws that (if fitted with a proper folding rafter hook) can be safely used for scantling and roof construction, without any cords to tangle or get in the way of a lanyard. Cordless SDS Max Hammers. No need to bring along the gennie any more.

As previously mentioned, whilst Metabo are currently first, I suspect many (most?) professional brands will soon follow: even yours. They certainly won't be unique, anyway. Despite the marketing hype, the only Battery Cell manufacturer to actually make cordless tools is currently Panasonic. ALL others use 3rd party proprietory cell suppliers. All of them.

The current 2 leaders in cell technology seem to be Samsung & Sanyo/Panasonic. I don't rightly remember which particular ones are used by whom, but there seems to be an element of "follow the leader" here. As Metabo, for instance, introduced 5.2ah cells a few years ago, it appears that maybe Festo/Protool/Narex are using the same supplier for their batteries that will be released shortly. That Bosch, Makita & Milwaukee market batteries of the same exact capacities is also I suspect less than coincidental too.

Another great feature of all this "new tech" is that with perhaps a few minor exceptions (Makita?) all tools, batteries & chargers are mercifully both backwards & forwards compatible. Old tools use new batteries, old chargers will charge new batteries, and new tools will still use old cells. This makes upgrading much more cost effective, and allows your old kit to have a new lease on life without any unplanned redundancies. A damn good thing all round in my opinion.

I have absolutely no affiliation with any particular tool manufacturer or supplier in any way whatsoever. Whilst I freely admit to having some strong opinions, these have been formed only through personal experience with tools that I've owned or used over a 45 years period.

I use Bosch cordless tools, but only because at the time of purchase this manufacturer offered the most useful combination of "heavy use" tools required for my particular needs (high speed/high torque drill, 4 1/2" grinder that won't cut out, one-handed SDS mini hammer & nice loud radio charger for the cricket). I don't therefore endorse Bosch or any particular other brand as each individual user's particular needs & priorities are also different.

Bosch have just announced a wireless charging system. crowie sent me this link yesterday: http://www.woodshopnews.com/exchange...harging-system but I don't think I'm too excited about it. The guy in the shed can just swap to a charged battery and throw the exhausted one on charge. The guy in the field - well he has to be able to put the tool onto the charger and that's probably impractical to keep doing.

I reckon its pretty gimmicky too. Firstly, it's only available in 2.0ah, and as you say you need to place the tool or battery alone onto the charging plate. When you run out of juice - all too often with only 2.0ah - you STILL need to swap batteries if you want to keep working!

This induction charging technology has been around for a few years already (Braun Electric Toothbrushes).

Where I can see a more logical application is in urban roadway installations allowing vehicles, especially buses, to charge and power themselves as they drive a set route, allowing the acquired charge to power them "off grid" when they have to drive on unpowered roads. I could also see induction charging at traffic lights etc. to charge your electric vehicle as you wait your life away for the lights to turn green whilst stuck in the peak hour crawl.

Originally Posted by Ratbag

I could also see induction charging at traffic lights etc. to charge your electric vehicle as you wait your life away for the lights to turn green whilst stuck in the peak hour crawl.

Crikey the traffic must be bad on the South Is. It's pretty good up here - only 2 or three sets of lights in town.

No lights in my town either; nor ever likely to be.

Just speaking generally: Oz is the most urbanised nation on earth, many parts of which have truly 3rd-world public transport networks. Tas, for instance, doesn't have either passenger rail or urban buses that run past about 6 pm or on Sundays!