Thread: Badge engineering - Rebadging identical machines

Originally Posted by Iain

So what was Italian made, the badge or the machine...........
Has been known to happen.

We are getting very close to urban myth territory here, but I did work for a few years in a city near Shanghai, planning housing infrastructure for the humungous "Singapore Industrial Township".

I never saw anything "made in Singapore'........but...........

Cheers,

P

The one that comes to mind was the American Hupmobile (a long time ago I know) with the brass plate on the dash 'Guaranteed for life', the plate not the car.
When I was manufacturing some questionable companies sold me hardware as Australian Made, pity the despatch person didn't change the bag they were in that announced they were made in ROC, confirmed by the slip inside the bag.
And my pet hate was a local fishing identity had designed a fly rod (manufactured in USA) to suit Australian conditions, ????????.....do we have wetter water or what?

Yes, I do think that most equipment comes from the same factories. For example, take a look at this website www.oavequipment.com It shows that
most 14/16/17/18" bandsaws come from the same Taiwanese factory and in reality the differences between "makes" comes down to what options are selected by the Aust/NZ firm that orders the bandsaw.

My Carbatec bandsaw had a bolts & nuts parts list that in the bottom corner said SBW2501/JWBS14 implying the factory produced both JET bandsaws and Carbatec bandsaws. When I downloaded the JET 14" bandsaw manual and printed out the exploded parts diagram of the machine, the only differences between it and my Carbatec bandsaw were: upper/lower guides, knobs on the doors and the casting pattern used in the upper/lower wheels.

There are regulations that cover badging and country of origin claims etc. It is not quite as straight forward as people think. There are also regulations as to what constitutes "made in Australia" and this is related to the amount of value added work conducted on the raw materials.

The stories about made in Australia only applying to the lables is no longer valid and each state consumer affairs people would be interested in companies who flout the regulations. As far as I'm aware it is the responsibility of the retailer to get their house in order as they are ultimately responsible. If they give you mis-leading information they cannot blame it on the importer or manufacturer.

Badging of products is also a complicated area, it goes on in the car industry to name one. As long as you order enough a manufacturer will put what ever name you like on a product, the issue of interlectual property is also a factor. China is now part of the World Trade Organisation and has to start applying regulations to its manufacturers.

There is no doubt that where machines are made in one factory QA issues will detirmine the component cost, top grade machines will be checked at every level and components that are within certain specifications will be rejected and used on lower priced machines. Another way to keep costs down is by using lower grade components, cheaper nuts and bolts, cheaper paints that are not stoved finished. This way they keep the production costs down.

One interesting explaination provided to me was that many are indeed produced on the same production line. Once they reach a quality control point certain checks are made (e.g. flatness of a cast iron top etc.). Individual manufactures have different requirements. "Top shelve" brands will get the better ones and the more discount brands will get the lesser quality ones. The production line is branched at that point, where they are painted and customized. Seems quite reasonable.

"Top shelve" brands will get the better ones and the more discount brands will get the lesser quality ones

Interesting point but what happens when they have a few weeks of poor quality and there are suddenly 100 lower quality machines before any of the higher quality machines start to roll out? It would seem that it is somewhat random and would be difficult to fill the orders for both the poor and high quality requirements.

The system that used to be used in the computer industry, and for all I know is still used to this day, is that items are tested to a standard, pass or fail at say 100%. Top pass goes into bin 'A' and is sold as item 'X' . The fail lot is then sent down to the 95% test rig, pass/fail etc.

The odd thing is that when they have enough 100% pass items to meet current demand, they just stop testing at 100% and go to the next level that they have a need for, so you may get 100% items in the 80% bin.

I rather suspect that this is the system used for machinery building too - try to build at 100% standard, test & test again until you fill your orders.

whatever you choose, i think you'll find it is worthwhile to buy products made in iso rated factories (9001, 9002, etc.) this is 3rd party info direct from factory to consumer.
-Ryan

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Chinese manufacturers all look the same to me.

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Let's not put a slur on everyone here....

P

Oh MY GOSH! I would not want to be there when WONGO COMES KNOCKING!

(insert scarry music here)

ISO 9001/9002 don't guarantee that you produce great gear. It just means that you have a process in place to track your poor manufacturing . I really must stop doing this.

I had a discussion only two nights ago on this very subject with a local importer of a brand that sits on all of my machinery bar the sliding compound mitre saw and the drill press. He almost (but not quite) admitted that the factory their gear comes from makes product for others. He was relating a story about planers (thicknessers to us) and how the various specs for each brand can be quite different. One interesting point was the difference in the weight of the motors on the different brands of machines. Apparently the more iron? and copper in a motor the better quality it is. But I never take a forklift and a weighbridge with me when I'm shopping so I'll still be none the wiser.
Some brands do look and feel better than others though - even in the showroom. That's why I've stuck with one brand - even though I've been very tempted by other prices at times.

Graeme Carson

Originally Posted by ArianAgain

One interesting explaination provided to me was that many are indeed produced on the same production line. Once they reach a quality control point certain checks are made (e.g. flatness of a cast iron top etc.). Individual manufactures have different requirements. "Top shelve" brands will get the better ones and the more discount brands will get the lesser quality ones. The production line is branched at that point, where they are painted and customized. Seems quite reasonable.

This is what I have been today told by MWE. The manufacturers(and I use the term losely) like Jet also specify to their needs even though many come from the same factory. It was quite refreshing to hear an honest explanation which wasn't spoken to gain a sale (as I had already paid).

The other interesting point is that Delta owns its factorys. So what do you think happens to the not so good machines?

Anyway just thought I pass on what I learnt given my earlier rant. I guess I only had to ask

Originally Posted by boban

The other interesting point is that Delta owns its factorys.

boban, Delta machines are largely made in Taiwan/China now. Do you mean they own the Taiwanese factory?

This is a good thread. All the stuff we suspected but hoped wasn't true.

Is the answer to buy the cheapest manifestation of the particular product we want but make sure the warranty is good, just in case we get one from the 80% bin?

If we were in the USA the thread would be the same but Mexico would feature in the same sentences as China and Taiwan.

Two things that haven't been said:

Who, in 1950, would have suggested that Japanese products would be manufactured in Taiwan?

How long would I have to wait, and how much would I have to pay, if I insisted on having a power tool manufactured entirely in Australia?

Welcome to the global economy.