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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Moss Vale
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    379

    Default Another bloody sander/sanding question

    I am coming to the conclusion that watching paint dry is more fun than stripping back and sanding dining table chairs with turned legs etc. (The chairs have to be stripped right back to remove the stain too.)

    I have tried a number of different processes and have come to the conclusion that sanding off the old coats of varnish is the quickest way to go. However, as I am dealing with mainly curved and round surfaces, a straight sander, or even four is not going to cut it alone.

    ON my big Bosh 150mm ROS I have installed a Norton "Soft Interface Cushion." Its made of sponge, about 12mm thick and attaches to the sander's base plate the same way as sandpaper. The sandpaper then attaches to the cushion. It works well, but is way to big to get into a lot of areas.

    For that I have a Metabo 80mm ROS that is bloody brilliant for getting into tight spots. Metabo sell accessory "Interface Discs" that works the same was as the Norton cushion. Having a cushioned interface makes the job possible to do with (mainly) sanders which is a real positive.

    The situation I am facing is that so far, I have used two of the Metabo 80mm Interface Disks on one chair. At $8.75 a pop, its going to cost over $100 in pads alone. They last for about 4-6 sanding disks.

    Is the rate of usage on these Interface Disks excessive, normal, or am I doing something wrong. Finally, does anyone have any suggestions or tips.
    Cheers
    Ric

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth W.A
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Hi Torb.
    Would strongly recommend using chemical stripper such as diggers paint and varnish remover.
    This will completely remove the varnish and may pull out some of the stain too.
    Wiping over with a solvent too may lighten the stain considerably if it was spirit based.

    A lot of modern furniture is sprayed with a coloured lacqeur so will come off with the varnish but if the timber was stained pre-finish it is harder to get rid of.

    A small detail sander may be more effective than a larger ROS.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    34
    Posts
    6,127

    Default


    Soak rags in thinners/stripper and leave them on the varnish for a while, then you should be able to just scrape most of it off (a scourer will do quite well). Just make sure you buy a proper gas mask.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Moss Vale
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mark david View Post
    Hi Torb.
    Would strongly recommend using chemical stripper such as diggers paint and varnish remover.
    This will completely remove the varnish and may pull out some of the stain too.
    Wiping over with a solvent too may lighten the stain considerably if it was spirit based.
    I tried Diggers (the less toxic version) and it was next to bloody useless. I then tried Polystripper and whilst its better, it takes 2 coats to remove the varnish, and does nothing much to remove the stain. I also have tried a heat gun and whilst its effective, its painfully slow and I still have to sand to remove the stain.

    No idea how the base coat was applied, but its a nightmare to remove. After having spent many days experimenting and trying all the usual options, sanding has turned out to be best way, far, far, quicker than the alternatives. What I am really looking for is the best sanding method/equipment to get the job done. (I also have a Dewalt 125mm sander and a Dremel small triangular sander.)
    Cheers
    Ric

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sth. Island, Oz.
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    64
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    754

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    There's no real single solution to paint removal in mouldings & turnings. Just ask any old house or furniture renovator.

    What about getting the chairs dipped? Not cheap, but neither is your time. If it doesn't work then you won't be charged.

    I also like those small Bahco/Sandvik Wolfram (Tungsten) Carbide scrapers. Doing mouldings I use a couple: one fitted with a triangular blade, the other with a "pear" blade (2 different radius semicircles) which covers virtually all of my mouldings' intricacies. There's also round & teardrop blades available, but these profiles are available within the other 2 I use anyway. Painfully slow, but they're hard & sharp enough to last well when used dry or wet with stripper. Held at the "right" angle, which takes a bit of practise to determine, they're surprisingly effective. There's also short & longer straight reversible bladed models available, but I've not found them personally as useful as an ROS is much faster & more effective on flat & convex surfaces.

    Never had a lot of luck with a heat gun & scraper, however I've found a stiffer blade & rounded ends to lessen digging in an advantage.

    Another extremely messy but rapid method is to use an old fashioned 125mm Triton Random Orbit Sander attachment on a variable speed angle grinder. The sheer speed & power of the grinder and the thick spongy nature of the Triton pad offers a remarkably effective solution for flat and shallow concave curves like seat dishing. As the pad loads up with sticky paint or varnish residues, it performs a semi-abrasive, semi-melting removal of painted finishes without actually abrading the substrate. It still needs a final clean-up (hand?) sand, but nevertheless removes the vast bulk of a finish. I should stress that a delicate touch is needed lest damage be done. There's no dust extraction so it's an outside-only and dust mask solution here. I did say it was messy. It's main advantage is speed: it absolutely beats the pants off Rotex sanders.

    Smaller detail sanding with your SXE400 & delta sanders, hand cork or rubber pads and even quartered torn & folded single sheet hand-held papers might be necessary for final fine finishing.
    Sycophant to nobody!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    About to move
    Posts
    243

    Default Leave the sanders in the cupboard this time

    The problem is the shape of the surface, not what has to be removed. It's my opinion traditional sanders are not worth much here. Too many shapes, too many curves, perhaps carvings, no flat straight runs.

    If I were to do this again I would get to know a good stripper. Give her any name you care but don't bother with anything mentioning worksafe, environmentally friendly, easy to use. Get the meanest toughest you can find and set to work. I wouldn't dip a whole item into a bath of any kind unless I knew the joints coud take it. A lot of old stuff was assembled using various forms of hide glue and these things will come apart if exposed to water.

    The problem is what to use when the stripper has done her thing. Notwithstanding what I said above, I would tentatively try pressure washing but the hide-glue-joint-thing has to be protected.

    Then, if your chairs are anything like the colonial chairs im sitting on now... Welcome to hand sanding.

    There is quite a selection of different sanders available but I've not seen anything yet that comes close.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Langwarrin, Victoria, Australia
    Age
    55
    Posts
    677

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    Dismantle and mount on lathe ? Not pretty I know ...
    Glenn Visca

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sth. Island, Oz.
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    64
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    754

    Default

    If you want the chairs stripped.... then strip 'em!

    I realise there's problems with the caustic nature of some solutions, but there's surely somebody helpful in your region who knows what they're doing, and can offer a "kinder" solution.

    I hear your concerns regarding the rabbit skin glue used for jointing, but that can also be overcome. Unless fox wedged, the chairs may actually be more easily treated when dismantled anyway. An advantage is that you could use a stronger resourcinol glue for reassembly too. Lee Valley once sold a special "Chair Doctor" glue complete with a stainless syringe for just this purpose: if they can't be taken apart but loosen anyway.

    Following stripping, the more intricate carvings could perhaps be cleared of residual finish with a SOFT brass wire brush: remember those 6" small fine brass wire brushes (Waproo??) we used to use on suede shoes? If the timber is super-soft (Toona australis etc.) don't. Otherwise perhaps a dentist's probe or engineer's scribe could pick out those troublesome nooks & crannies in the carvings.

    Apart from that I'm just about out of bright ideas.
    Sycophant to nobody!

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Moss Vale
    Posts
    379

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    Thanks for all the suggestions. There are some very helpful tips amongst that lot.

    I had completely forgotten that I have a complete set of various shaped scrapers that have only been used for about two minutes previously. Those shapes will now come in very handy and compliment the multi angle T scraper I have been using.

    I also have a set of weird shaped sponges and sandpaper that sticks onto the sponges. Whilst hand sanding is slow, the sponges can get into every nook and cranny. The stripper will also be useful in the tight areas. I also have some brass brushes about the size of a fang cleaner in various grades of hardness, so these will help too.

    My experience with the Metabo 80mm sander with a soft interface pad proved that this sander is a really good option, but the cost/number of the Metabo sanding pads made that option expensive. The good news is that The Sandpaperman sells what looks like a high quality interface sponges at a realistic price. So, that's what I will use to do most of the initial varnish removal.

    One question..... what the best tool to use when cutting the interface sponges to size? Jigsaw, bandsaw, sharp blade
    Cheers
    Ric

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sth. Island, Oz.
    Age
    64
    Posts
    754

    Default

    Wiss make a "straight" Multimaster snip (orange handles??) that has thin but usefully long blades: 3" or so from memory. Whilst only averagely useful as a tinsnip (thin straight blades don't like tight radius curves in sheet steel) they make excellent general purpose super-duty household shears.

    No problem tackling a raw chook with these babies. They're probably good enough to joint an emu! Best of all they offer pretty good performance for small change.

    Somewhere in my old sparkies toolkit is a pair of Midwest 3" offset shears. Can't exactly remember the handle colour for ID purposes, but I think it was either red (left) or green (right hand). As I’m right handed & generally try to cut “left” or counterclockwise I suppose they’re red, or are they dark blue? Buggered if I can remember! But I could probably skin a rhino with ‘em.

    You can get straight serrated bladed ones too (at about 5 or 6 times the price) that would eat most materials for breakfast. Too much for your intended purpose I’d suggest.

    Erdi (Bessey) also make excellent quality (but expensive) snips. Apart from them & Midwest the rest seem to be second-tier quality or less: Wiss, Stanley, Irwin etc. are all good, but just not up to the first 2. Stateside by mail order is the cheapest place for Midwest tools. There’s no cheap place to get Erdis.

    Long bladed shears or snips are sufficiently heavy duty for most tasks up to & including 2mm or so of mild sheet steel: a velcro & foam type sandwich won’t offer any resistance at all.

    Just don't be tempted to cut any abrasive paper or webbing with them. No edge tool can cope with that sort of punishment.
    Sycophant to nobody!

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Moss Vale
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratbag View Post
    Somewhere in my old sparkies toolkit is a pair of Midwest 3" offset shears. Can't exactly remember the handle colour for ID purposes, but I think it was either red (left) or green (right hand). As I’m right handed & generally try to cut “left” or counterclockwise I suppose they’re red, or are they dark blue? Buggered if I can remember! But I could probably skin a rhino with ‘em.

    Stateside by mail order is the cheapest place for Midwest tools.
    A pair of the red ones cost me US$20 a few months ago. Thanks again for all your help with this project.
    Cheers
    Ric

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