Thread: Chain style wood carving disks

Originally Posted by DaveVman

Now just looking at it, these disks looks way to dangerous to me but I don't know if other beginners would think the same. You can buy a bunch of different ones online. Cheap. E.g. Kogan. Which means there are people in Australia and NZ buying these chain things. Do they realise how dangerous these are? I doubt it.

I doubt many people that buy tools really know how dangerous they are. I've seen this many times at the men shed, guards removed from angle grinders (to improve reach), holding onto a piece metal with one hand while using an angle grinder one handed with the other, no PPE etc.

swell as the minicarver and most of teh accessories I've got one of the bigger (100mm) Arbortech Wood Carvers but they come with a really good guard, although I do know someone that uses it completely without the guard.
Attachment 502618 Attachment 502619
A lot more exxy than those cheap things but according to those who have tried both provide much more control.

I don't know that the ArborTech kit is even in the same league as these chain disks when it comes to risk.
The chain disks seem to me to be a meat shredder just waiting to happen. How could those chain teeth not dig in and kick back? And that would just be the start of your fleash losing experience with that chain on a grinder.
It's like the most dangerous part of a chainsaw minus any of the features of a chainsaw that might save you. And for good measure we won't explain the risks and market it to hobbyists. What could possibly go wrong?

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Dave, as bad as this is, there was a worse piece of gear available around 10 years ago. Some Ron Moore or vice versa, riveted two pieces of chain onto a metal disc for use on brush cutters. I think the centripetal force on the moving joints might have been way past the saw chain manufacturers design limits. Thank goodness they were removed from the market fairly quickly.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Originally Posted by DaveVman

I don't know that the ArborTech kit is even in the same league as these chain disks when it comes to risk.
The chain disks seem to me to be a meat shredder just waiting to happen. How could those chain teeth not dig in and kick back? And that would just be the start of your fleash losing experience with that chain on a grinder.
It's like the most dangerous part of a chainsaw minus any of the features of a chainsaw that might save you. And for good measure we won't explain the risks and market it to hobbyists. What could possibly go wrong?

Chainsaw kick back occurs when the top quarter of the bar nose touches wood. Being right at the end of the bar, if the saw operator is not prepared for the reaction And braces against it, the chainsaw nose can rapidly climb up the wood and in doing rotate back towards the operator and cause serious injury even death.
If that part of the nose bar never touches wood there will be no kick back
Here's a diagram from the Stihl manual that shows this.
Screen Shot 2021-10-22 at 7.22.53 pm.png
However, if the operator is experienced and well braced for that reaction, it can be controlled and is even sometimes used in practice for what is know as a plunging cut.
I've use plunging cuts to shape logs into playground furniture.

If the angle grinder chain wheel has a proper guard fitted in the right place, this apart of the wheel should not be exposed and so should not kick back.

"Kick back" is not a very good term in that it's much more of a back rotation towards the operator.
Chainsaw kickback should be worse than angle grinder kick back because the operator is trying to control the rotation at the end of a long lever with the operators left arm at the fulcrum and the other hand at the trigger which usually represents a shorter lever. This is why, for an unprepared operator especially using a long bar saw, kick back wins most times, and is why chain brakes were added to chainsaws.

An angle grinder chain wheel setup has a much shorter chain to fulcrum distance, AND provided a guard is used AND the operator has both hands in the right place on the grinder, is unlikely to experience kickback any more than using an Arbortech wood carver.

The problem is I see them being used without guard, minimal or PPE, and using them one handed.

Most folks don't have a clue how to sharpen chainsaw chain and only sharpen the cutters and do nothing or very little to the rakers. Fortunately, as th cutters wear, if nothing is done to the rakers those wheels (just like chainsaw chain) will become increasingly ineffective at cutting so users will probably go buy another (just like chainsaw chain). If the rakers are continually lowered appropriately they should keep cutting like new till the cutters start to break - excess lowering of rakers will add to kickback risk.

Now despite all this, I don't recommend people buy chain wheels - get an arbor tech wood carver wheel - the tungsten carbide teeth will last a lot longer than regular chainsaw chain.

All "tools" have a "hazard / risk profile."

Some tools / procedures / processes are more hazardous than others but that does not necessarily preclude their use, whilst others may be deemed so hazardous that they are banned.

If we choose to benefit from the "advantages" of a "tool" it becomes the users responsibility to make themselves aware of that known "hazard / risk profile" and to take measures (controls) to minimize or eliminate the hazard/s and the harm/s it may inflict. "She'll be right" is unfortunately an all to common approach to learning.

Many jurisdictions have implemented / enabled legislation to burden manufacturers, importers, wholesalers and retailers with obligations to supply a product that meets enforceable standards (if they exist), and to make users aware of known and potential hazards, and to inform them of "safe operating" recommendations etc. That does not stop individuals / companies who see opportunity and structure their affairs to avoid their obligations.

I'm certainly in favor of restricting access to some tools / procedures / processes because the harm from the hazards / risk and the very high potential for damaging catastrophic outcomes warrants that action. However that will never stop some one determined to gain access to that tool / procedure / process.

Originally Posted by DaveVman

I don't know that the ArborTech kit is even in the same league as these chain disks when it comes to risk.
The chain disks seem to me to be a meat shredder just waiting to happen. How could those chain teeth not dig in and kick back? And that would just be the start of your fleash losing experience with that chain on a grinder.
It's like the most dangerous part of a chainsaw minus any of the features of a chainsaw that might save you. And for good measure we won't explain the risks and market it to hobbyists. What could possibly go wrong?

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

I'm aware of a gentleman in the USA who suffered a very severe gash to the neck jaw requiring some 100+ stitches to "repair." These are tools with a high hazard / risk profile.

However that said certain design features of a chain saw chain and its sharpening determine the cutting properties and aggressiveness of the "cut" particularly the relationship of the cutting edge & corner to the depth gauge (limiter). Chainsaw chain design is optimized for the chain running on the flat section of a chainsaw bar, to control "kickback" whilst maintaining efficient cutting performance.

The relatively tight radius of the "chainsaw carvers" changes that geometric relationship considerably, and the anti kickback benefits of conventional chain saw chains. The more reputable manufacturers / suppliers supply carvers with chains specifically designed for this highly specialized application with what they call "full house" chains i.e. all cutter links with no tie / joiner links. That innovation makes the performance of the disk/cutter far more predictable and controllable by controlling the "depth of bite" that any individual tooth could potentially make.

DO NOT USE a chainsaw carver that uses standard / skip / semi skip chains that are so common on the budget offerings! They are less predictable and far more difficult to control than "full house" chains. Buyer / User Beware stuff! Some of the really cheap knock offs actually have cutter link, tie link, cutter, tie etc except for the "join" which effectively is cutter, tie, tie, cutter.