Thread: chainsaws getting past the sales spin

Similliar post like this in small timber milling forum, from memory some of the specs are different with AU/US saws, probably better off asking this in the timber/small timber milling forum, lots of knowedgable users there.


Pete

I bought a big chinese saw some years back on ebay, paid $180 as I recall. Now before you tune out..

I took it round to a BBQ with some friends and with several of my stihl owning friends looking on gave them a demo. My mate Peter put it into perspective superbly: "the annual service on my stihl isn't much less than that, if you get 12 months out of it you could throw it away and buy another".

That was several years ago, maybe 4. I don't use it often but when I do it starts easy and cuts well.

Now I have 2 stihl brushcutters a 74 and a 320. I wouldn't trade them for anything, and if you own a QUALITY stihl saw you've got a machine for life, but FWIW I wouldn't waste the money on the consumer grade stihls, or any of the lesser "name" brand machines. Just buy the cheapie chinese and chuck it when it breaks. In fact at the price you can chuck it when it gets dull.

45CC Gasoline Chainsaw, Garden Tools | eBay

$87, seriously ?

2c

thanks for the help so far still i can not find out what is the difference between the US and AU CS, i have also posted this in the Timber forum for small timber mills as suggested, mods close this if you like.

Thanks

If you get the saw from the US then you should be able to get spares sent from there also. I cant see why bars and chains could not be got here and they are the most often required spares. Only other thing needed is the odd spark plug and filter. If you get a good saw and look after it (clean after evry use and keep a sharp chain all the time) then not a lot goes wrong. Warrenty may be a problem but at the price difference I would also be tempted.
Regards
John

bars and chains can be got here but you will pay at least double what it would cost to order it from the states including shipping

Hi Daniel,

how much differences in demands and norms can there be across countries the world over? When you dissect a chainsaw's functions and features, the list you get is not all that long. Emission statistics, torque, sizes and gauges, proneness to kickback or unbalance, engaging speed of the chain brake, noise level, fuel consumption and amount of mixed lubricant needed, overall handling and operation ergonomics, instruction clarity of the supplied manual, safety standard and testing organisation compliance, things like that. I couldn't think up many more than these.

A thorough study and comparison of the part list drawings of various machine versions (giving an overview of all export model differences) and the norms and legislation papers themselves, will soon sort out any true detail difference involved. You may see different carburettor and exhaust muffler constructions and several varieties in clutch and brake system and rpm-limiter layouts. Maybe some additional safety details, like handles and grip with incorporated safety throttles in certain shapes, or adapted bar shapes (small diameter front section to reduce kickback risk). But as far as i can see, that's about it. Pricewise such details couldn't cause such RRP diferences per country, so there must also be some pricing politics involved.

Every selfrespecting chainsaw manufacturer will want to export worldwide. Compliance to local standards are the ticket to obtain sales approval for targeted markets. So manufacturers hand in adapted versions of their basic design for thorough testing, after having studied all local norms and legislative demands involved. When grants are issued and selling in a country is allowed, the manufacturer only needs to make sure that their machines continue to comply to present rules, including timely and proper machines adaptations when these rules should change. Furthermore, the manufacturer needs to guarantee that only the approved version of the export models are imported to the right countries, so they will have to closely guard the official sales channels and watch out for any grey or black imports of unapproved versions of the machine design.

Stihl is known to have a tight grip on its sales channels (Festool is another example of strict and humorless clinging to its official setups). When you're in Waiblingen for a guided tour in Stihl's main plant, you can carry as much cash as you want and point to a specific saw you would like to purchase right there and then. But Stihl won't let you have it straight from the factory; you are politely referred to your closest official Stihl dealer. Some 15 years back, you could see the 070- and 090 AV still being assembled in Waiblingen. But as a European you couldn't order one, because these types failed EU emission standards and the entire production was meant for export to Asia and South America, where the use of them was still allowed. The 070 is today still made in Stihl's Chinese and Brasil plants, but cannot be imported to the US, to the EU or to Aus and NZ. You may do so through a grey channel on your own acount, but since Stihl's warranties are linked to the submission of machine serial numbers, you will effectively void your own warranty and official part and repair dealer support rights.

Inside the EU itself, there isn't much version difference between versions meant for various EU-countries. The French ruling is known as one of the strictest and up to a few years back, every machine complying to French safety standards, had to carry a separate decal that advertised it. Still, Stihl saws are slightly cheaper in Holland than in Germany. German craftsmen and German machine shoppers on the whole, are known to be loyal to German products and brands. Foreign brands may not enjoy the success they would like on the German market, even when offering price reductions, because buyers will still have a tendency to buy German. The Dutch can choose from many other brands and will do so if the price is right. Makita, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Jonsereds, McCulloch and Asian made B-brands keep nibbling at Stihl's market share, resulting in a current expensive marketing effort of Stihl to try to emotionally convince the Dutch that you can spot a true professional by his Stihl machine.

I'm convinced that the price difference of Stihl in Aus and the US has a lot to do with local market compositions and "political" situations (the presence of strong and staunch local competing brands and the willingness of the local folks to shell out more for the products of a particular brand) . The same seems to go for Festool products, in such a way that i've heard many forum members here talk about importing Festool stuff from the US and even pay for the additional 120/240Volt transformer in the process, only to hear Festool come up with a lot of song and dance about local safety peculiarities, prohibitions and the voiding of warranties. Which boils down to the same masked protection of its own closely controlled sales channels and jealously guarded market share.

As the brands themselves are concerned: try to regard the purchase of a chainsaw as an investment as well. I know no Chinese product that ever showed 100% flawless and faultless smooth operation and then suddenly broke down just in the right moment to leave you with decent value for money. Every Chinese product i ever used started its life working with a slightly higher amount of noise and vibration and a slightly less than perfect operation of all its functions and safeties. In short: they were slightly less fun and impressive to work with from the start than quality brand products would be. And then they would gradually degrade and become more faulty and cumbersome in daily use, being no fun to use at all shortly before you decided to chuck the them out. Once a machine rattles from wear and become unpredictable, i hate to use it. Chinese machines do not perform beautifully and then die, they merely tend to wear more speedily and behave worse and worse in the process, to eventually break down.

A Daewoo or Tata or SsangYong cannot be a Mercedes and for its price tag it will never provide the smoothness and fun that a Mercedes will give you during its rides. Few chainsaw brands will give you the trusted feel and proven performance of a Stihl or a Husky. These A-brands work and they keep working and they will persuade you to invest in maintenance and repair instead of chucking them out and replace them. These quality machines grow on you, they make you fond of them and trust them. I would know no McCulloch model that would endeer itself to me in quite the same level, let alone any unknown Chinese product of which i couldn't fathom its contents and origins.

regards

gerhard

I think in general you get screwed everywhere here... I'm just curious as to who is in the middle making all this money.

Without going on too much of a rant here are quite a few examples of massive price differences.

Allen Keys (Bondhus):

Needed what I thought was a 10mm allen key, only Bunnings was close. I could only get one in a set, with only the Bondhus being available. I got one with rounded style ends for the princely sum of just short of $50. Went back to site to realse I actually needed imperial and so came back and forked out $45 for the imperial as I knew I'd use the metric anyway. So all up it would have been roughtly $90 or there abouts. Was shocked to find on amazon thine us, both sets togheter for $16US which given the exchange rate at the time would have been about $17-18AU.

Pliers (Knipex):

Got a heap of pliers from the US lately purely because of the price difference, for electrical combination pliers it was $25US, compated to around $60-70AU + I've seen them for here... and that's online.

Dickies work shorts:

US online and in department stores for $20-30US, sell in surf shops here for $100AU.

Batteries:

Needed two button batteries for my car alarm remote. Watch repair place I was passing by wanted $10 each, not to change them or anything, just to supply them. Got 2 on ebay posted for $4.

Tiger Balm:

50c a tub in Indonesia, $5-10 each back home in supermarkets, chesmists etc.

DVI-VGA adaptor:

Often will have one or two left over from building a computer... they often give them to you for free with a motherboard or graphics card had to fork out $25 for one from dick smith as I needed it then and there. They would be worth $1 or less to a manufacturer... price should be $5 at a stretch.

Same goes for cables in general, especially things like data and telephone cables in most stores... they'll charge you an arm and a leg for cables that often come provided at no cost. That's without going into hifi cables.

Might be classified as hoarding but I always keep leftovers, spare cables, plugpacks, fasteners and so on from any purchase.

Sorry for the bit of a side track, but I think it's just representative of many things these days. I understand how it is not often the retailers fault, but it makes me wonder where this price difference is going. You can argue operating costs, freight costs, small market etc. but when you have differences in prices of several times, something is wrong. Quite often if you know where you can get things quite cheaply, it doesn't even have to be online... It just amazes me sometimes how much some things cost and it just doesn't seem right.

Sounds like Stihl may also have uncompetitive sales channels... a hifi company had a system where they would only sell to their specific dealers and they were all allocated a specific region. They were not allowed to sell outside this region or face the consequences. There were no region specific differences in product that would explain it, the only reason given is to 'protect' dealers... however really it's akin to price fixing in my eyes and essentially there is no competition amongst the brand.

Everyone except the US and Asian buyers get screwed.

I must have been is 10 different hardware store across Europe in the last 5 years - the prices are about the same as here in OZ.

What happens is this. The US market is so huge no one wants to their lose market share so Asian and European corporates sell to the US at a loss or at cost. Every other individual country is peanuts compared to the US but the wholesale prices to the rest of the world are upped to make up for the difference. Basically everyone else in the world is supporting US prices - its called market forces.

Thanks for the responses i will be geting an import saw from saw chain on the forums here i could get one a few dollars cheaper if i did the full import myself but i am happy to pay a bit more and support somone that is brining them in all the time and not screwing us over in price, i will still save about 500 to 600 all the same on a big husky. Many people keep banging on about warranty but this wouod be just like buying a secound hand saw in that niether have a warranty and both are about the same price but one realy is new. Also from my reasearch so far the only diference is in mufler and carb due to emissions standards yet if i have a problem the au part will still bolt up fine.

Also due to saw chain having some experience with these i can always ask his advice as to the specific changes in the model i am looking at, so i should end up ahead money wise if all works fine during the warranty period that i would have buying local and in all honesty i have never used warrantys before on anything i have looked after even on cheap stuff so i beleive the risk is small for me loosing out when buying a non au model.

In all honesty i dont mind hurting the dealers a bit as they will not talk about why things are the way they are and get aggresive as soon as you talk about grey imports they wont touch them so they are not going to land in there lap at the end of the day, it would be nice if they started putting presure on the big companys to compete but they will not while they are still making sales so the more people that use them as windows to decide on which model to grey import the more likley that something may get done. It is also interesting to point out that on my small tractor the parts i get from the us are exactly the same as the ones in au only 2/3 the price landed as the ones at the dealer. I now have a full range of basic parts and servicing items in my shed to have on hand when needed and still have saved money and when i have a problem i have the part on hand too it has beeen the best thing that is why and when i shifted to buying 95% of everything i can from the us and other cheap places on the net that are legit. I think that mu local dealer has probably lost a few grand from me over the last 12 months, not much but as more people do what i have been it will hurt.
The only reason why i asked about this on the forum was that i was not up on saws if i had more knowledge a few weeks ago this would have been a no brainer.

I have contributed to this post under it's timber milling guise too, but some comments on importing.

As an individual, you are at an advantage in importing a one-off item

Under a certain value you are not charged import duty.
You are not obliged to pay GST (even though you do reclaim that.)
You are not required to offer support sevices
You are not required to make a profit yourself. Let's assume the importer is keen on making a living.
If you are the importer/distributor you may have a network and they too expect (reasonably so) to make a profit (living)
You don't have the hassle of importing, dealing with customs etc.
You don't have to tie up relatively large sums of money in a business.

Under these circumstances it is not surprising that you see goods advertised overseas apparantly so much cheaper than here in Oz.

I understand where you are coming from with the price differential and others have explained the clout of the US market.

In the end " you pays your penny and makes your choice." I don't know Sawchain personally, but I'd say in dealing through him you have made a wise decision that will pay off down the track.

Regards
Paul

The OS retailer has to deal with most of those issues
The maker and importer set the local price at what they think they can get away with. That's how it's done. Little real world justification for being 50% or more retail price higher in most cases.