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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Santpoort-Zuid, Netherlands
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    67
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    Hi Hoover,

    power means a lot for chainsaws. Electric ones can be very puny, with tiny chains and bars and motors with little power reserves. If so, they are plasticcy and little fun to work with. Budget machines often have budget solutions for nearly every component. Which means a flimsy oil pump, flimsy bearings, flimsy bar attchments, flimsy housing parts and sparingly built motors, since they contain expensive raw materials like copper. Chainsaws are typical tools for which investment pays off. In the long run you will be glad to have spent the extra money to obtain a machine that stays with you for many more years and doesn't let you down when you need it.

    The Makita types are value for money. They already were so some 30 years ago, but they still are, thanks to the cooperation with Dolmar from Germany. Dolmar from Hamburg was the true pioneer, with Stihl in close pursuit, whereas many people think that Stihl was the originator. Dolmar brought petrol motor knowledge into the Makita organisation, which spawned a whole array of petrol driven chainsaws. Dolmar also yields bar, pump and drive technology, whereas Makita in return makes the electric motors for the electric Dolmar range. Thus there are several electric chainsaws models in either red Dolmar and blue Makita styling, which are in fact identical constructions.

    My personal favourite is the Stihl E220C (presently evolved into the MSE 220 CQ).
    It is a sturdy 3/8"chain model with a 2200 Watts motor. It started off as the E20 some 20 years ago, with a 2000 Watts motor. From the range of E10 (1000 Watts), E14 (1400 Watts) and E20, the latter was the most powerful. Some years later the motor was souped up to 2200 Watts and the model was remaned E220. There also was a soft-start version (fitted with a starting current limiter) named E220C. This limiter is an electronic module containing a triac (full wave AC control), with a fixed setting of approx. 70% of the full sine wave. This is enough to ensure that the startup current peak is reduced to 50-60%. The switch has a built-in time lag element with a second set of contacts, which close after one to two seconds. At first switch-on, the limiter module is connected in series with the motor, dampening the startup current peak and the typical startup jolt through the machine, giving the motor and the drive train a longer life. The second set of contacts bridges the module when the set time lag has passed. In that time the motor is supposed to have accelerated to 80% of full idle rpm, after which it is directly connected to the mains by the bridging contacts.

    This two-step acceleration is often used in heavy industrial angle grinders as well, many times in combination with an oldfashioned wire wound ceramic resistor instead of electronics. The resistor is considered to be more robust and reliable than electronics, even today. The famous "MSfa" grinder range by Fein was the best known example from a few decades ago, but more modern machines by Flex (L2106VC/L3206C/L3208C) and Hitachi (G23MRU) are still fitted with resistors instead of electronics.

    Around 2004 Stihl introduced "MS" (for "Motorsäge") as a prefix for every chainsaw model in its range, be it petrol or electricity driven. Thus the E220C became the MSE220C , but at the same time the obligatory quick brake system was added ("Q"). The electronic module inside the MSE220C-Q was also used to provide the braking function. This is done by very briefly reversing the motor armature's polarity, meaning that is fed a power burst in reverse, making it brake and stop very abrupt indeed. This reverse burst makes for some violent brush sparking and quicker wear of the brushes, which is even mentioned in the manual. I'm not very keen on electric braking through reversing, since it is also heavy on the copper commutator strips, which are not exactly cheap consumable parts. There was no MSE220C without the Q to be had, so i still stick with my older E220C, which has current limiting but no electric brake (and no mechanical brake as well, or that matter). In principal it would be illegal to resell it or to let others use it in Europe, but owners are allowed to use non-quickbrake chainsaws for themselves, since they are accountable for their own safety anyway.

    The 220 is a workhorse. It has plenty of power and speed and its progresss is superb for an electric. The 3/8" pitch RSC (Rapid Super Comfort) type chain by Stihl is a pleasure to work with. Good performance combined with adequate safety and reduced kickback risk. Stihl's "Oilomatic" chains (with grooves in the drive notches for lapping up and transporting the oil to the joints) are brilliant anyway. No load idle speed of the 7-teeth sprocket is slightly above 7500 rpm and for nominal load intake (2200 Watts) you get 1400 Watts at the sprocket in return (1.9 true hp), with nominal load speeed of 6300 rpm. Those are nice statistics, so i can recommend this machine to you.

    When having taking this machine apart or overhaul and maintenance, i was initially shocked by the large and course metal 10-teeth pinion on the motor arbour, engaging an even coarser ringshaped 35-teeth fibre reinforced plastic secundary gear (teeth arranged on the inside of the ring). A round 10-to-35 ratio is odd since it means that the same teeth often meet each other again and again, whereas comon gear practice dictates that the ratio should be deliberately odd (i.e. 9 or 11 to 35), to spread the effects of one tooth having been damaged or worn slighter more than the others. But i was also surprised at the small amount of wear for such a simple choice of gear layout. Prior to dissasembling the E220, i thought it was a typical solution for the homeuser types MSE140, 160, 180 and 200, but it seems sound enough for the 220 as well, which is targeted at professional users. When the 220's price is too stiff and the amount of use is not so intense, you could have a look at the MSE 180 or 200 as well. I find the 140 and 160 too light for more than seasonal cleanup tasks.

    Lovely picture of the enthusiast's collection, including 400 Volt saws! I noticed a Stihl E30 on the top shelf and as it happens, i bought and restored a second such machine for my own collection a few months ago. There are two pics added below of the finished result and i can add more if you want. There is a story around three phase induction motor saws, which i would like to mention some details from.

    Stihl's first chain saw was electric. In Germany, three phase power was made available to factories, workshops and yards as early as 1900-1910. Three phase power could shift Wattages that DC or single phase AC couldn't and selling it provided stable bread and butter for electricity companies.Money earned through companies was reinvested to spread out networks to consumers and their large prospect markets of lighting and household appliances. So many timber yards were fitted with three phase AC and one- or two man operated cutoff saws were lugged around for milling timber prior to treating it with thicknessers and circular saws. The E 30 was the last in the line of three phase one-man saws (attachments for two-man operation were available and bars as long as 150 cms were part of the E30's program). The final version of the E 30 features 3300 Watts intake for 2700 Watts output, spinning the 7-teeth sprocket at around 2780 rpm. So this is a slow saw but with plenty of torque. 2700 Watts outputs means that you carry around 3.7 real horsepower , which is fairly unique for an electric portable tool. There is no soft start and no brake system whatsoever, so you need to keep concentrated while using it. Between my 070 AV and this Stihl model, i'm equally fond of both.

    Greetings

    gerhard

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Santpoort-Zuid, Netherlands
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    Wrong two pics. The ones above are from the first E30, as it was packed and shipped to me by a pensioned master craftsman.
    Below are the ones i meant, with a third one showing the tiny arbour of only 14 mms diameter. This is a very redlined design for an induction motor of almost 4 hp; in industrial types of equal strength the arbour would be more like 30 mms diameter.

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Tasmania
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    36

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    Thanks man but Stihl's abit of out my price range, but that was a great read up thanks

  5. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    nambucca
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    3

    Default my 2cents worth

    hi i havent read all of the posts but i thought i comment anyway
    i purchased a makita electric for a one-off job and i am happy with it so far
    i got it from sydney tools (advertised on ebay for $150, in the shop advertised as $450)

    its got a 16 inch bar and is 1800 watts
    its got a bit of power but doesnt seem to rev like a petrol saw -
    when chain is sharp it cuts hardwood allright ,( havent tried grey gum or iron bark at this stage though, )
    i was hoping to use it for carving cause of the reduced noise, lack of fumes , shed use
    good for intermitant cutting cause you dont have to start it all the time
    its peacefull not having an idling saw inbetween uses, and not hassle of mixing petrol

    drawbacks- having power cord
    ,also of concern is it isnt variable speed, just on and off, which is the only unforseen drawback so far

    all the best folks

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,785

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    Quote Originally Posted by treefan View Post

    drawbacks- having power cord
    ,also of concern is it isnt variable speed, just on and off, which is the only unforseen drawback so far
    Variable speed can supposedly cause problems on electric CSs. Unlike a 2-stroke CS which has very little torque at low rpm, electric CS have their max torque at low rpm. This means they have more kick back ability at low RPM than comparable power petrol saws which just stall. Thus an inexperienced operator might think they are safer because they are taking it easy at low rpm whereas they are not as safe as they think.

    The other thing about electric CS is that regular CS chaps are not very effective against them

  7. #21
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    nambucca
    Posts
    3

    Default good forum this

    thanks for explaining that BOBL
    I like the control of variable speed, but maybe its just a matter of getting used to a different tool....
    i like to back off on the revs when the cut is near completion (stops little stuff flying around) and when i do this with the electric the saw stops abruptlly and the cut isnt finished !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    happy days

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    36

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    I nearly picked up an Echo chainsaw today, petrol for $140, bit of wear and taer though.

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    belgium
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    1

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    Gerhard,
    About the stihl E30:are there ever made 3/8" sprocets for it?

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,209

    Default Stihl electric 3 phase saw.

    I have a Stihl 3 phase saw motor unit in the shed if anyone in Oz wants one?

    Re the smaller single phase Stihls I used one about 30 years ago and was most impressed with it.
    As far as a small unit to use around the yard I picked up a Makita elec at a garage sale 20 or so years back it has done several trees up to 12inch dia.
    Also have an old Victa 240 elec mower $20 at a garage sale 25 years ago even has a catcher.Used to race karts and motox bikes so am over noisy air cooled motors.
    I lie am doing up a '59 Mazda 3 wheel ute and its got a 600cc v twin.4 stroke at least.
    H.

  11. #25
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    Nov 2004
    Location
    Santpoort-Zuid, Netherlands
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    Hi Emigor,

    not that i know of. I've never seen a 3/8"sprocket mentioned as an available spare part in Stihl catalogues. I'm not sure about OEM-manufacturers, but i doubt that they would have made one. At 2800 rpm, the E30 already is a relatively slow saw, benefiting more of its torque to make progress then of its speed. Since the power is there, you can use a big full chisel chain size. I guess a 3/8"-chain instead of a .404"-one would noticeably reduce the machine's capacity; that is probably the reason why Stihl never made a sprocket for it and advised to use the 3/8" E15 instead.

    greetings!

    gerhard

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Hunter Valley
    Posts
    208

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    Quote Originally Posted by clear out View Post
    I have a Stihl 3 phase saw motor unit in the shed if anyone in Oz wants one?
    G'day! Have you still got it? Would like to chat if you do

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Darkest NSW
    Posts
    3,206

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    Never know your luck, but it was 10 years ago....

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elill View Post
    G'day! Have you still got it? Would like to chat if you do
    It went years ago.
    Ive still got a large shed full of junk.
    I think the stuff reproduces like rabbits
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  15. #29
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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Darkest NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by clear out View Post
    It went years ago.
    Ive still got a large shed full of junk.
    I think the stuff reproduces like rabbits
    H.
    We'll know you've arrived when you are able to change your username from "clear out" to "enuffstuff"

    We are fortunate to have a neighbour who subscribes to the "person who dies with the most stuff wins" philosophy - whatever we might need to borrow, he's ALWAYS got one.

  16. #30
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    Aug 2020
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoover View Post
    I found a Ryobi one at bunnings, 2000w/400mm for $130 reduced from $149.

    and an Ozito electric one for $99

    not sure on which one to purchase.

    You're at the bottom of the market on all the brands, there isn't going to be much if any difference between the makes and models. Don't expect much out of them and you should be fine.

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